ImperatorK
First Post
If the party is small then the DM can, oh I don't know, maybe add an NPC? Or give Leadership for free?
Marionnen's Musings: Cohorts and Henchmen and Hirelings, Oh My!
- Thread starter airwalkrr
- Start date
I am sure others have already mentioned these things but I will go ahead and mention them too. I actually was part of this bad ass group that specialized in having minions. We had a town and ALL the members where loyal to one party member or another. 3.5e caters to the person who wants minions.
First off there is leadership feat, gain minioons based on CHA.
Secondly there is a cleric. Cleric have the ability to gain quite a large number of undead followers (ALL evil cleric do and some neutral clerics can command undead. Prestige classes in I think Libris mortis GREATLY increase the clerics ability to command undead.
Also a cleric with the plant domain can command plants. A cleric with the earth, air, fire or water domain can command elementals. This stacks with its ability to command undead (at least that is how I would rule it). i believe there is a feat or ability somewhere that even allows clerics to command evil or good outsiders... ill look.
CLerics and wizards/sorc. The have the spell animate dead and stronger versions of this spells. This gives more undead minions.
there is also spells that animate objects and plants; and dont forget about summonign and planar binding...
Leadership and clerics ability to animate or command undead is the most effective way to gather minions. But a druid also has ta limited ability to gain minions.
Druid: druids can befriend animals. however, they actually dont limit the druid the way they limit the cleric. meaning a druid ability to use animal empathy (or other abilities and spells) to make friends with animals is not based on the druids HD, so I guess a druid can have a MASSIVE number of animal helpers. Also there are good prestige classes that enhance the druids ability to get minions. I forget the name of the PrC but ill look. The animal minions however arent ALWAYS loyal as the clerics undead minions and the minions given by leadership. I mean its essentially making friends with animals and hoping they will follow you so its up to the DM, its not part of the rules that the animals that a druid befriends has to follow them and help them (only the animal companion). I think there is some prestige class or feat out there that gives teh druid the ability to command plants or animals JUST like a cleric commands undead. If given this ability then the it wouldnt be upto the fancy of the DM to decide if your animal followers are loyal.
Also there is nothing in the rules preventing your cohort given by leadership to actually have leadership itself, at least I dont think there is (thus increasing the minions you have access to)
First off there is leadership feat, gain minioons based on CHA.
Secondly there is a cleric. Cleric have the ability to gain quite a large number of undead followers (ALL evil cleric do and some neutral clerics can command undead. Prestige classes in I think Libris mortis GREATLY increase the clerics ability to command undead.
Also a cleric with the plant domain can command plants. A cleric with the earth, air, fire or water domain can command elementals. This stacks with its ability to command undead (at least that is how I would rule it). i believe there is a feat or ability somewhere that even allows clerics to command evil or good outsiders... ill look.
CLerics and wizards/sorc. The have the spell animate dead and stronger versions of this spells. This gives more undead minions.
there is also spells that animate objects and plants; and dont forget about summonign and planar binding...
Leadership and clerics ability to animate or command undead is the most effective way to gather minions. But a druid also has ta limited ability to gain minions.
Druid: druids can befriend animals. however, they actually dont limit the druid the way they limit the cleric. meaning a druid ability to use animal empathy (or other abilities and spells) to make friends with animals is not based on the druids HD, so I guess a druid can have a MASSIVE number of animal helpers. Also there are good prestige classes that enhance the druids ability to get minions. I forget the name of the PrC but ill look. The animal minions however arent ALWAYS loyal as the clerics undead minions and the minions given by leadership. I mean its essentially making friends with animals and hoping they will follow you so its up to the DM, its not part of the rules that the animals that a druid befriends has to follow them and help them (only the animal companion). I think there is some prestige class or feat out there that gives teh druid the ability to command plants or animals JUST like a cleric commands undead. If given this ability then the it wouldnt be upto the fancy of the DM to decide if your animal followers are loyal.
Also there is nothing in the rules preventing your cohort given by leadership to actually have leadership itself, at least I dont think there is (thus increasing the minions you have access to)
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Oh yeah there is a psion Prestige class called the Thrallherd (i think) and it gets an improved form of leadership as a class ability. Instead of adding your character level and your CHA you add your character level plus your CHA plus your thrallherd levels (it leadership alittle better; but you have emntal comtrol over your minions in this case, its not because they respect and admire you). I had a bard wanting this ability so I made a PrC for her that use the thrallherd ability but was designed for a bard not a psion.
nijineko
Explorer
leadership used to be automatic. i like it being an option, rather than an automatic thing. and it should be a resource. having to spend a precious resource (feat) can represent the off-scene efforts the character does to maintain that ability. you are gaining a substantial benefit, you should pay for it.
for the automatic thing, use the renown and reputation rules instead. i use the two scores in a formula to calculate the knowledge check dc for that character (rep) and how widely it has spread (ren). this gives a +/- synergy modifier to diplomacy, bluff, and intimidate when interacting with others, especially hiring henchmen and hirelings.
and as far as a large party goes, just play multiple characters. and make them all different levels. if you bring in hirelings and henchmen, that is what you are doing anyway. in one campaign i am a player in, i am playing three characters, the dm is playing another three, plus the rest of the universe... and it is some of the best roleplaying i've had in a long while. our characters verbally snipe and joke at each other, and make awful puns on the bad guys' doings mid combat. great fun.
for the automatic thing, use the renown and reputation rules instead. i use the two scores in a formula to calculate the knowledge check dc for that character (rep) and how widely it has spread (ren). this gives a +/- synergy modifier to diplomacy, bluff, and intimidate when interacting with others, especially hiring henchmen and hirelings.
and as far as a large party goes, just play multiple characters. and make them all different levels. if you bring in hirelings and henchmen, that is what you are doing anyway. in one campaign i am a player in, i am playing three characters, the dm is playing another three, plus the rest of the universe... and it is some of the best roleplaying i've had in a long while. our characters verbally snipe and joke at each other, and make awful puns on the bad guys' doings mid combat. great fun.
Hussar
Legend
One issue here is complexity. It was fine to have a boatload of henchmen/hirelings back in AD&D, because you could summarize them in about half a line. HD: HP: AC: Move: THAC0: Damage: Done. Casters might be a bit longer, but, again, very limited numbers of spells/day and spells period meant that you could summarize even a fairly high level caster in a line or two.
Imagine trying to summarize even a 4th level fighter in 3e (or shudder 4e)? Stat blocks get pretty darn long. I suppose 3x5 cards would work, but, now you've got a stack of cards to keep track of as well.
4e did have a good rule for this where NPC classed NPC's used a truncated power list while still remaining useful.
Imagine trying to summarize even a 4th level fighter in 3e (or shudder 4e)? Stat blocks get pretty darn long. I suppose 3x5 cards would work, but, now you've got a stack of cards to keep track of as well.
4e did have a good rule for this where NPC classed NPC's used a truncated power list while still remaining useful.
airwalkrr
Adventurer
Well, if you pay close attention to my blog, I am working on ways to cut some of the complication out of 3.5. I am certain I can cut the character sheet down to an easy-to-read 1 page with time. The top half will be stats and the bottom half will be left for notes.
airwalkrr
Adventurer
While I admit there are lots of ways to get minions of one sort or another, these have pretty much been in the game since 1st edition. What I am really trying to aim for here is a system to allow players to gain henchmen to play as secondary characters to add more diversity to the group and give the player a better understanding of the mechanics of different classes (if they want to choose different classes) or better understand the mechanics of their own class and try different approaches. They can also be backup characters if their main character dies instead of rolling up a brand new character the party has no reason to trust.
Jacob Marley
Adventurer
Fighters are actually pretty easy to handle; all that is really needed are abilities, initiative, hit points (hit dice), AC, saves, and to-hit & damage expressions. The rest of the stat block can largely be ignored for the bulk of play.
Casters, on ther other hand, are significantly more complicated to manage due to the exponential growth in spells available. The adventure I am currently playing in, for example, has me running a wizard, a druid, a familiar, an animal companion, a horse, and two guards. At levels 6 & 9 I intend to take Leadership for the wizard and druid, respectively. Managing the spell lists alone can be quite a chore!
One area in which 4e did well was with the creation power cards. (Having a background playing M:tG and various FFG LCGs also should me the value of using cards to present information.) I think there is some merit in looking to cards to assist in the presentation of information and to ease the mechanical process of playing the game.
Hussar
Legend
That's not really the issue though. In play, there can a boatload of niggly details to worry about. This henchman has power attack, that one has expertise, the other one has two weapon fighting, etc etc. And that's just fighters, which really are the easiest of the bunch.
