Martial or Exotic weapon?

[Aust Diamondew]

I'm trying to create a type of spear to represent how a greek hoplite would have fought in combat.

I was thinking it'd pretty much be long spear that could be used one handed. Would this be exotic or martial?

If it's somewhere in between the two would also reducing the penalty when using a tower shield with this 'hoplite's spear' to -1 or 0 push it over the edge to exotic?

 

[trentonjoe]

I'm trying to create a type of spear to represent how a greek hoplite would have fought in combat.

I was thinking it'd pretty much be long spear that could be used one handed. Would this be exotic or martial?

If it's somewhere in between the two would also reducing the penalty when using a tower shield with this 'hoplite's spear' to -1 or 0 push it over the edge to exotic?

If you take a martial weapon and give it a special ability that pretty much makes it exotic.

I would make the 1st weapon exotic and think about making the second ability a feat.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

If you take a martial weapon and give it a special ability that pretty much makes it exotic.

I would make the 1st weapon exotic and think about making the second ability a feat.

In 3.5 it is a simple weapon which is why I ask. Note the 3.5 'message icon' to the left of my threads name in the house rules forum.

 

[Aaron2]

I'm trying to create a type of spear to represent how a greek hoplite would have fought in combat.

I was thinking it'd pretty much be long spear that could be used one handed. Would this be exotic or martial?

If it's somewhere in between the two would also reducing the penalty when using a tower shield with this 'hoplite's spear' to -1 or 0 push it over the edge to exotic?

I wouldn't make it exotic, considering that it was most common type of weapon for hundreds of years. A common house rule allows a spear to be used one-handed as a martial weapon. I wouldn't let you have reach since the weapon would need to be held in the middle, so even a 12' spear would only act as a 6' one. Finally, I wouldn't call the argive shield (hoplon) a tower shield either; just a plain ol' large shield.

OTOH, I wouldn't be against requiring a feat to use the Macedonian pike+rimless shield combo.


Aaron

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I wouldn't make it exotic, considering that it was most common type of weapon for hundreds of years. A common house rule allows a spear to be used one-handed as a martial weapon. I wouldn't let you have reach since the weapon would need to be held in the middle, so even a 12' spear would only act as a 6' one. Finally, I wouldn't call the argive shield (hoplon) a tower shield either; just a plain ol' large shield.

OTOH, I wouldn't be against requiring a feat to use the Macedonian pike+rimless shield combo.


Aaron

Thanks for the input I think I will just have the haplon be a large shield.

 

[Eolin]

::slight thread steal, all apologies:::

I'm in a game currently that's fairly roman-esque in ways. The DM has made rulings that from a power perspective i like, I'm not certain how accurate they are.

for instance, he's decided that roman shields are tower shields. And you can bash with them (for a d6, i think).

And just to be clear, by roman shields I mean the big ones we see used by the roman phalanxes.

Eolin.

 

[Aaron2]

for instance, he's decided that roman shields are tower shields. And you can bash with them (for a d6, i think).

The Roman shield (scutum) were fairly thin (1/4" to 1/2") whereas the Greek hoplite shields were covered with a layer of bronze. The result was that both shields weighed about the same; around 16 lbs. The PHB lists a tower shield at 45lb which is 3x too heavy. Plus the tower shield is listed as being as tall as a person whereas the roman shields were 4' tall in caesar's day and about 3.5' tall in the later empire (when they were rectangular rather than oval). I'm not sure what the tower shield is supposed to represent. Possibly a pavisse.

I'd make Scutum an extra-large wooden shield at +3 AC, but that's just me.


Aaron

 

[Darklone]

Hmm. Roman as well as Greek shields should be large shields, but YMMV of course.

I like that idea for longspears to be a one handed martial weapon. IMC, I use the extra long phalanx spears with which you can attack at 15ft and 20ft, not closer, but only in a cone .... turning that direction costs a ME action, with a concentration check if you're in a formation... fumbles mess up a lot.

 

[Aaron2]

Hmm. Roman as well as Greek shields should be large shields, but YMMV of course.

Between parmas, peltas, viking warlindens, scutum, argives, heaters etc, I have a hard time dividing all shield into either +1 or +2. I need some more wiggle room.

I like that idea for longspears to be a one handed martial weapon. IMC, I use the extra long phalanx spears with which you can attack at 15ft and 20ft, not closer, but only in a cone .... turning that direction costs a ME action, with a concentration check if you're in a formation... fumbles mess up a lot.

What I did was increase the Flank penalty for piker from +2 to +4 to represent the cumbersome nature of the weapon.


Aaron

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Sure a roman shield might have only been 4' tall, but the real question is how tall were people back then? I'm guessing a little over 5' tall.

Even so the Roman's in D&D would still proably only be using large shields maybe as has been suggested with a +3 AC bonus.