Martial Study Feat

[Felnar]

Firefox is great in and of itself - IE cribbed all its high level spells off Firefox's spellbook.

firefox introduced me to tabbed browsing and changed my life

 

[saucercrab]

firefox introduced me to tabbed browsing and changed my life

Word.

 

[blargney the second]

Word.

Word. (language warning, fair and square)
-blarg

 

[saucercrab]

Word. (language warning, fair and square)
-blarg

On topic, I don't remember anyone mentioning this:
With retraining, a character could upgrade his Martial Stance & Martial Study feats to get maneuvers that require one or two prerequisites, right? I seem to remember some official source saying that maneuvers can be used to qualify for themselves.

 

[Arkhandus]

Nope.

And it would be absurdly pointless then for the numerous maneuvers that require one maneuver as a prerequisite.

Also, once you no longer meet the prerequisites for a maneuver, just as with a feat or the like, you lose the use of that maneuver.

 

[Zurai]

Also, once you no longer meet the prerequisites for a maneuver, just as with a feat or the like, you lose the use of that maneuver.

Incorrect. The book actually specifically mentions that manuevers only check their pre-reqs when you first learn them.

 

[Zurai]

On topic, I don't remember anyone mentioning this:
With retraining, a character could upgrade his Martial Stance & Martial Study feats to get maneuvers that require one or two prerequisites, right? I seem to remember some official source saying that maneuvers can be used to qualify for themselves.

No, for two reasons:

One, you cannot retrain maneuvers gained through Martial Study (and you can never retrain stances, gained through Martial Stance or not).
Two, when retraining a maneuver, you lose access to the old maneuver before you learn the new maneuver; thus, you can never use the maneuver you're retraining to qualify for the new maneuver.

 

[Arkhandus]

The book says nothing of the sort, Zurai. The section where Prerequisites are described does not say it only matters when choosing the maneuver.

Also, you specifically need to meet the prerequisites of a maneuver before taking it, so you cannot take it and then count it as one of the prerequisite maneuvers.

Granted, the book is not entirely clear on the subject, but it sure seems to be the same in spirit as the prerequisite rule for feats.

The Sage answered such a question months ago in Dragon, and said that you lose the use of the maneuver if you no longer meet its prerequisites, until you once again meet the prerequisite (learning enough other maneuvers of the appropriate discipline, or whatever). Issue 354, April 2007.

 

[saucercrab]

No, for two reasons:

One, you cannot retrain maneuvers gained through Martial Study (and you can never retrain stances, gained through Martial Stance or not).
Two, when retraining a maneuver, you lose access to the old maneuver before you learn the new maneuver; thus, you can never use the maneuver you're retraining to qualify for the new maneuver.

If using feat retraining from PHB II (& that's what I was referring to, but didn't specify), One is incorrect. But looking that up, it would only be a useful for relearning a maneuver or stance when a character gained a higher initiator level; it wouldn't help towards prerequisites.

 

[saucercrab]

Also, you specifically need to meet the prerequisites of a maneuver before taking it, so you cannot take it and then count it as one of the prerequisite maneuvers.

Granted, the book is not entirely clear on the subject, but it sure seems to be the same in spirit as the prerequisite rule for feats.

The Sage answered such a question months ago in Dragon, and said that you lose the use of the maneuver if you no longer meet its prerequisites, until you once again meet the prerequisite (learning enough other maneuvers of the appropriate discipline, or whatever). Issue 354, April 2007.

That's the Dragon issue I was looking for. Figures it's one I lent out. :\

I was originally referring to when a martial adept levels up at 4th or higher & chooses to learn a new maneuver in place of another. He can use the maneuver he's trading in as a prerequisite for the new maneuver (or so I thought I remembered the Sage saying that). I was trying to relate that to a non-martial adept retraining feats to gain maneuvers or stances with only a couple of prerequisites, but the text in PHB II would disallow that.