D&D 4E Mass Combat--Anyone run some in 4e? Have practical advice?

[YuriPup]

Its looking like my newly 3rd and under geared PCs are and some 40-80 allies are going to be getting into a battle with a cemetery of fresh undead--numbers are flexible but I am thinking 400ish.

Wrapping up that fight, I expect them to rush to the main army defending town that is under simultaneous attack from the besieging orc army.

Yes I brought this down on myself.

Anyway, I have looked around some and haven't seen many resources for this.

So ideas for running this and a good way of abstracting the PC actions to effect the larger battle would be way cool.

Its more of an RP group so I really don't need to get crazy on the strategy level (and the PC side is small enough that they really aren't going to be leading units.

Things should go splat nicely though.

 

[Sebastian1992]

I would just basically have a regular fight happen towards the PCs and just describe the rest as it happens. Be careful not to give away everything though, only major things such as siege weapons coming in and major enemies nearby.

Just how I would do it....

 

[Tale]

Minions, minions, minions.

For NPC on NPC combat, flip a coin. Heads, it dies, tails, it lives.

 

[James McMurray]

Have a single prepped encounter or a string of easier ones for the PCs, and use the battle raging around them as mobile terrain, "traps," and hazards.

 

[hafrogman]

Minions, minions, minions.

For NPC on NPC combat, flip a coin. Heads, it dies, tails, it lives.

Have a single prepped encounter or a string of easier ones for the PCs, and use the battle raging around them as mobile terrain, "traps," and hazards.

I'd suggest something combining these two. Start out with just the PCs vs. a few waves of minions. Every few rounds, take stock of the battle. If they've done well against the minions, send in more undead. If they look like they're getting overwhelmed, have some leave or die (killed by NPCs, or off to other parts of the battle).

Then keep a sort of tally system, the more enemies they've killed, the less pressed the NPCs were, the better the battle has gone overall. If they had to be helped by the NPCs a lot, then the battle has gone poorly, and the Orc fight will be harder because of it.

 

[Siberys]

A good resource for this would be Heroes of Battle, if you can find a copy. Pretty good 3e book, with lots of advice on running mass combats that can be applied, regardless of edition.

Other than that, I've been contemplating a bizarre hybrid of Axis and Allies, Risk, and D&D to simulate mass combat for ages. That ruleset would handle the actual NPC units, between battle turning-points at normal player scale I'd have pre-planned.

 

[Paul Strack]

I've run several "major battles" the way Sebastian1992 suggested. The PCs fight a normal encounter against the leaders of the enemy army and plus some minion cannon fodder, and the rest of the fighting happens off stage as part of the background. If the PCs win, so does their army.

 

[Bagpuss]

A good resource for this would be Heroes of Battle, if you can find a copy. Pretty good 3e book, with lots of advice on running mass combats that can be applied, regardless of edition.

QFT.

Although in a sort of summary of that book, the advice it gives is basically turn a battle into a "dungeon". Break the battle down to key turning points and then give the players options, the result of their choices helps decide the success or failure of the battle. The NPCs fighting around them are just scenery.

For example if they are defending a keep.

The enemy bring a huge siege catapult over the rise and start to fling heavy boulders at the wall, if they keep this up for too long it is clear the wall will be breached.

Do they sally out to destroy the siege catapult? Are they successful?

If not, then they move closer to defeat and the next encounter is defending the breach when the wall collapses.

If they succeed they move closer to victory and the next encounter is defending the wall against scaling ladders or a siege tower.

The more encounters they are successful at the greater their victory, if the pass only say 50% then the victory is only marginal with great losses on their side, if the pass 80%+ it is a resounding success, if they fail more than half having to retreat or losing party members, or just deciding not to fight that encounter then it ends in defeat.

 

[ricardo440]

You could do it like this.

A series of encounters where "battle rages about you"

1) A fight against some of the goons in the army. Makes the PCs feel good.
2) Oh No, the enemy has a huge monster, it is tearing a a hole through your forces, it MUST be stopped. PCs fight big solo monster, enemy minions and friends kinda cancel each other out on the boundaries. Occasionally they creep in, and either the PCs or the Solo make short work of them.
3) Finally that thing is dead, catch a breather.
4) But wait, an opening, yes, if you siezed this opportunity you could maybe make it through to their general. Kill him and this thing is over!

Other encounters could be Enemy elites have made it through to the Towns leader, his bodyguard looks hard pressed, if he dies then your forces will lose heart.

Or

Enemy Elites are trying to outflank. They'd get to the women and children, they MUST be stopped!

 

[Kalbutt]

It all depends if the outcome of the battle is already decided in your story or if it depends on the actions of the PCs.

If you know the undead are going to win, you can add a 'desperation' feel by launching wave after wave of enemies on the characters. In this case, their job would be to make a strategic retreat and/or help friendly NPCs while staying alive and slowing the undead advance. Just describe the chaos around them and make allies fall.

If the battle is supposed to be won by the good guys, I would play it like a mini-dungeon, as was suggested above : several linked encounters towards a showdown with an enemy general/boss monster. I would add some short-term objectives to spice things up : help allies, hold some key location for some rounds for reinforcements to come, go after a specifc target before it finishes some action which could be detrimental to the PCs, destroy a siege weapon before it fires...

If the outcome of the battle depends on the PCs, I would describe the encounters so that for each victory or objective completed the battle turns in their favor (reinforcements arrive, allies morale rise after the characters kill a tough monster...).

I think the important thing is that your players feel they can make a difference in the battle.