Massive Battle to end Paragon Tier

[Riastlin]

Hey All, so the party in my home game is about to hit Epic Tier, most likely at the next session. Currently they are in (or rather under) the capital city in the main nation, and opposing armies have laid siege to said city. During the most recent session, wherein the party had gone underground to prevent the release of a bound primordial, the siege was able to break the outer defenses of the city, and as such, the fighting has spilled into the city's streets. So, what I am looking for now is some insight/assistance in running the next session.

The basics are that there are three sides to the battle. You have the good faction consisting the nation and its armies as well as any allies its been able to assemble (this is the side the PCs are on). Then there's an aberrant faction that is laying the groundwork for opening a massive portal from the Far Realm. Finally there is an undead faction that used to be allied with the aberrants, but has since broken off to pursue its own course. Suffice it to say, there's no love lost between any of the factions.

So, in short, here's my basic idea, but I want some assistance in coming up with some specifics:

I plan on running this as a massive skill challenge -- possibly even a skill challenge consisting of skill challenges (i.e. must succeed on 4 skill challenges before failing three in order to save the day).

Some thoughts for actions that the PCs could take include:

Inspire: Diplomacy or Intimidate check to rally the forces and thus boost the defense/attacks
Negotiate: Diplomacy or Bluff to convince members of an opposing faction that the third faction is the better target
Triage: Heal checks to assist injured civilians/soldiers
Attack: Use an attack power on enemy forces to try to drive them back
Strategize: History check to determine good tactics and relay those to the defenders
Barricade: Dungeoneering or possibly Thievery check to create makeshift defenses

My goal is to try to make it so that everyone in the party has something to contribute, which is one of the reasons why I put in the attack option. Because the party is damn near epic, I also planned on having the enemy targets primarily be swarms (i.e. zombie swarm, foulspawn swarm, etc.) and make the spacing more or less relative -- so a PC can wade up to a swarm of foulspawn and drive them back single handedly (potentially).

All that being said, what problems do you foresee, what other actions can you envision? Should any of the above be considered minor success? If I turn this into a Skill Challenge of Skill Challenges, I would make each individual challenge represent one stage of the battle. For example, the first challenge would be to get the defenders to stop panicking and regroup. Then they'd look to protect civilians, followed by trying to drive the invaders out, etc.

FWIW, the party consists of a warpriest of the Raven Queen, an Avenger/Covenant Agent of Erathis, a Vampire/Assassin, a Swordmage/Coronal Guard, a Ranger/Battlefield Archer (who has been separated from the party) and a Fighter (can't recall the PP off the top of my head).

As always, any help is much appreciated.

On a side note, the final encounter of the Paragon Tier will likely involve encountering, and defeating once and for all, one of the primary leaders of the Undead faction who has been harassing the party literally from day 1 of the campaign.

 

[Piratecat]

This is a fantastic idea. I have some suggestions, but no time right now; I'll jot them down tomorrow.

 

[Trit One-Ear]

I'm similarly building a session around a large scale battle within a city, however in mine the players are attempting to wrest control away from a succubus and her cult. They're only heroic tier as well. Though it sounds like I'm planning to be more combat focused than your style, I'll post what I come up with as I nail some things down. I may also steal some of your more SC based ideas.

Trit

 

[Riastlin]

Alright, so here are some more ideas for putting this together, and I would, as always, welcome any thoughts, advice, insight, etc.

My main concerns are 1) the players simply trying to fight their way through this, rather than approach it like a skill challenge and 2) upon seeing that its a skill challenge, trying to simply spam their favorite skill/mass aid another.

So first off, with the attack option, I'm thinking of making it sort of a double-opposed roll. i.e. first the PC has to roll to hit one of the swarms, but doing so will then subject him to a counter attack. If both attacks miss, no result. If both hit, no result. If the PC hits but the swarm misses, then a success. If the PC misses but the swarm hits, then a failure. Further, I plan to describe this as something akin to Gimli and Aragorn at Helm's Deep. The PC's can cut into the invaders, maybe push them back, and certainly buy time, but if the party tries to fight them by themselves, then its just a matter of time before they are overrun (i.e. look for other options). Further, I won't be mapping the encounter per se (other than having a map of the city handy). That should clue the party into the idea that this is not a typical battle.

Next, a success in one of the individual skill challenges will not only rally the forces or push the invaders back, but it will also give the PCs a quick breather, allowing them to recharge some of the encounters, or perhaps even a full short rest if they do really well. A failure in an individual challenge on the other hand, will push the defenders back, but might also result in a mini boss breaking through that the PCs have to fend off. It would not be anything too overpowering, but enough to force the PCs to expend more resources and possibly take more damage. They also would have a hard time getting any kind of rest as they retreat.

If the PCs succeed on the overall Skill Challenge, then obviously, they are able to help repel all invaders and save the city (with perhaps some side effects based on assorted victory point conditions which are not relevant here). If they fail the overall skill challenge, then the city falls. One concern is what to do with the PCs should they fail overall. The thought I had was that as it becomes evident that the city is going to fall (i.e. they failed their 3rd challenge), they are tasked with spiriting away an important NPC, artifact, etc. The initial thought is the heir to the empire, but an important artifact also works. Of course its also possible that in the event of a failure, one or more PCs might also die, which is a different issue altogether.

To avoid Spamming, I think I can manage it by having the individual challenges progress in stages. (i.e. you see some panicked soldiers and are able to calm them and then inspire them to rejoin the fight, but then they need tactical guidance, etc.) So in that case, Diplomacy or Intimidate might get the soldiers fighting again, but then History would be needed for tactics, or streetwise to get them through the streets, etc.

The bigger problem, in my opinion, will come in avoiding the desire to do a mass "aid another" on the best talker, historian, thief, etc. The obvious method would be to have the party constantly under attack, but then that runs the risk of having them think in terms of a typical combat. This might also require me to have to change how I adjudicate the attack action since if the party is getting attacked anyway, then it seems unwise to subject them to further attacks when they do actually attack. The main thing though is that I would prefer not to have to say "Well, only two people can help" unless there's a good reason.

Anyhoo, sorry for the really long post, but trying to formulate this to make it the best possible ending to Paragon Tier I can.

Thanks in advance for any ideas!

 

[Trit One-Ear]

One way to prevent simply aiding one character again and again is to keep the chaotic and pressing nature of the battle ever present. Maybe do this by limiting the number of aid actions that can be done in a turn, or penalize players if they don't succeed at a certain number of tasks every round. So if everyone aids the thief to help the soldiers make their way through the back alleys, other troops nearby break and run, or are overwhelmed due to a lack of tactics. Encourage the players to do as much as they can to save the city.

The risk in this method is making the players feel that the NPC's can't manage anything without them. It gets tiring saving useless soldiers again and again, only t watch them run off to a different peril or a new way to die.

Trit

 

[D'karr]

It gets tiring saving useless soldiers again and again, only t watch them run off to a different peril or a new way to die.

Trit

Damn Lemmings.

 

[Trit One-Ear]

Damn Lemmings.

Or any escort quest in any rpg ever.

Trit

 

[D'karr]

Or any escort quest in any rpg ever.

Trit

Not the escort quest that came to mind...

 

[Piratecat]

When I did something similar, I had certain events that I knew the PCs could influence if they chose to. For instance, mercenaries had seized a guardhouse and were planning on controlling the gates. The PCs could do something about that if they chose; their actions would affect the effectiveness of the city troops. Since I knew who would win should the PCs not get involved, their involvement in key moments was enough to tip the battle their way.

 

[Quickleaf]

The trick with your scenario is that it's an overtly combat-based siege so the players will be thinking in terms of combat, but you're trying to map combat to the skill challenge system instead. That's fine if your players are extraordinary and/or accustomed to skill challenges being used in this way. For most players, I think the reverse (mapping a skill challenge to what is principally a combat) would make more sense.

For example, a dynamic fight with lots of terrain powers/props, that is against mostly swarms. Like most 4e parties, your PCsare melee heavy, which makes swarms a PITA because they take only half damage from melee/ranged attacks. A skill challenge might allow PCs to deal full damage with melee weapons against a swarm...representing routing the enemy unit.

Another way you could map a skill challenge to combat is to use a zone-based (rather than grid-based) battle map wherein the PCs make skill checks to move between different zones or change zone conditions.