Mastering Iron Heroes? Worth it?

[philreed]

Yeah, someone please elaborate. I'm really not getting how slapping the label "zone" on a pool of acid is in any way adding content to my game that didn't exist before. It sounds more like general advice than an actual codified rules subset ("add interactive elements to your battlefield like falling rocks and pools of lava").

I don't actually have time to expand on this today but there are specific rules for each zone -- and guidelines for designing new zones. It's certainly a lot more than just hazards or weather conditions as described in the DMG.

Maybe Mike Mearls will swing by and give a detailed description. Or you can ask at the Iron Heroes website.

 

[philreed]

The print version is a thin softback of about 96 odd pages (guessing there) for about £12 in the UK. So not particularly cheap, or overpriced. Heft is quite light, which is why I paused from buying it- didnt feel like I was getting my moneys worth.

Thanks. The Malhavoc website says it's a hardcover but that didn't seem right to me (because of the size).

 

[Asmor]

I'd just like to say that I have the same opinion about zones, from what little I've heard of them. Isn't the entire point of a role playing game that you can do whatever you want? Whenever I hear someone talk about zones in this book, all I can think is how much it sounds like some marketing jingo for a new video game with "truly interactive elements" by which they mean the designers explicitly placed areas that you could press a button to do something.

I'm not entirely against the idea. It's certainly possible that they have gone and done something innovative, I'm just saying that from what I've heard, that's the feeling I get. I'm definitely interested in hearing more on the subject.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

How adaptable is the material to non-IH games?

Reasonably adaptable, but not "instant plug-and-play". Two of three Villain classes do use the feat masteries in the Iron Heroes book, so you're best off if you have both. However, without it you could simply work up the table in advance to replace the feats with other ones. Everything else (which is to say 85-95% of the Villain classes) is not feat or IH dependant and is very handy for statting up an NPC fast. The Dreaded Sorcerer reminds me of the Warlock, so if you have both it's duplicative. Though if you don't, this one you can use without any work. I particularly like the "stats by CR" charts.

Zones are essentially codified rules for interacting with the environment in fun, different ways. As others in this thread have posted about, I've also allowed the environment to be used in a variety of ways in a game. Do I need zones? No. Do I find it handy that someone's codified them consistent with other system elements? Yep.

Much this book I personally can't use. Which is why I recommend it in pdf if you only need a bit. If you intend to run an IH game, it replaces the DMG. One of the big complaints after Diamond Throne was released was that it didn't replicate the DMG and had two much setting material. Mastering Iron Heroes seems to avoid all the complaints of that product.

 

[Odhanan]

For me Mastering Iron Heroes opened some of the doors of understanding of the system, its aims and uses, just like the rulebook did. Of course, you may think I'm biased, and to be frank, I am.

But hear me out.

I think it is a tremendous help for me as a DM, and I really recommend it to DMs of Iron Heroes. It's really a sourcebook that's trying to clarify what IH is about, and how to go about it. It presents you with the tools to do the job, the way to build tools on your own. Zones, villains classes are one thing. But there's something about it that makes IH all the clearer to me. I think that's the way it points out "here is a game that is about adventuring, taking risks, playing the daredevil and defeating your foe in a storm of steel, sweat and blood". That's the point. And all the tools are geared toward this point.

So as an experienced DM, I think you can "read between the lines" and see lots of design concepts coming together in this book. It's like the cement that makes the whole structure stronger, IMO.

 

[philreed]

Whenever I hear someone talk about zones in this book, all I can think is how much it sounds like some marketing jingo for a new video game with "truly interactive elements" by which they mean the designers explicitly placed areas that you could press a button to do something.

That's pretty much exactly what I think of them as. Iron Heroes, even more than D&D, feels a bit computer game-like to me. I feel the system is definitely geared toward game sessions and campaigns that heavily rely on miniatures and combat situations.

 

[Capellan]

That's pretty much exactly what I think of them as. Iron Heroes, even more than D&D, feels a bit computer game-like to me. I feel the system is definitely geared toward game sessions and campaigns that heavily rely on miniatures and combat situations.

I guess it's all about perspective, because I see Iron Heroes as being geared toward taking the tedious, dice-rolling bits of the average session and making them as fun and immersive as the actual roleplaying

I loathed 2nd Edition combat because of how static and dull it was. 3e improved things a lot, but long or multiple combats still got up my nose. In IH, I enjoy the fights almost as much as the rest of the game.

 

[philreed]

I guess it's all about perspective, because I see Iron Heroes as being geared toward taking the tedious, dice-rolling bits of the average session and making them as fun and immersive as the actual roleplaying

I'm not trying to say that Iron Heroes combat isn't fun, just that it's a different kind of fun.

 

[Odhanan]

That's a bit weird the way you guys oppose computer RPGs to tabletop RPGs that way. "The only true RPG is the tabletop game". Alright, I get that. I also get why you believe that, and I believe it too (the inner limitations of an environment imposed on you, the way it limitates imagination et cetera).

But that doesn't mean there aren't good things in CRPGs that can improve a tabletop RPG. Zones IMO represent this kind of trade very well. This is a tool that allows you to make the game more fluent and more codified in terms of interaction. But the guy who's in control is still the DM, not the rules, let's not forget that. It's a tool to make it easy on the DM to work out situations of interaction between characters and environment. Period!

 

[philreed]

That's a bit weird the way you guys oppose computer RPGs to tabletop RPGs that way. "The only true RPG is the tabletop game". Alright, I get that. I also get why you believe that, and I believe it too (the inner limitations of an environment imposed on you, the way it limitates imagination et cetera).

But that doesn't mean there aren't good things in CRPGs that can improve a tabletop RPG. Zones IMO represent this kind of trade very well. This is a tool that allows you to make the game more fluent and more codified in terms of interaction. But the guy who's in control is still the DM, not the rules, let's not forget that. It's a tool to make it easy on the DM to work out situations of interaction between characters and environment. Period!

I'm definitely not being clear. When I said computer game-like, it wasn't meant as an insult. I think it can be fun.