Max HP Debate for PC's and Monsters

[CrusadeDave]

I'm about ready to start designing a high magic campaign world for higher powered PCs, and I'm debating the merits of giving all PC's and monsters Max HP for their level and HD.

I've had more than one bad experience with players getting extremely agitated over Hit Dice Rolls, regardless of the variations I have used in the past: having the ability to choose the average round down (3 for a d6), reroll all 1's, reroll all 1's and once in a character's career reroll a 2, substitute all 1's for the average round down (3 for a d6).

Yes, I understand it's childish and immature to complain about lowsy stats and low hit points. I'm probably the only person who has ever willfully created a Rogue with stats: 8 STR, 8 DEX, 8 CON, 18 INT, 14 WIS, 14 CHA. And even then, rolling a crappy number for hit points just put me in a lousy mood.

. o O (If only I hadn't rolled a one, I wouldn't be unconscious right now....)

So as I begin pondering changes to the core rules for my campaign world, I brainstormed a couple of random ideas, the first I think I needed feedback on was making all HP dice rolls for PC's, NPC's and Monsters Maxed.

I'd really like some feedback on what y'all think would happen if all level 10 Barbarians had at least 120 points, and all 10th level wizards had at least 40.

Below are some theories I have. If you think these are horrendously naive, please let me know and tell me why. If you think there's something I'm not considering, give me some more opinions.

1. At first level this will have very little effect on the balance of the character classes as they already get Max HP at Level 1.

2. Encounters for first level characters will be more difficult, as goblins and orcs will now also benefit from max HP as well.

3. Generally, encounters will take longer to end. Maybe not twice as long, but approaching it as Hit Points for both sides has doubled, and damage delivered has stayed the same.

4. The transition from being the "fighter and his adventuring party" to being the "wizard and his adventuring party" will occur later, and will not be as magnified in higher levels, allowing the whole party to feel part of the team.

5. Fireball, Magic Missile, and other direct damage spells will become much less important compared to Charm, Web, Sleep, and spells that disable opponents without directly damaging.

6. Because of 5, until Spellcasters can get their DC high enough to cast disabling spells, they will be mostly support for tanks: Haste, Bull's Strength, etc.

7. Because of 6, teamwork and tactics will be more important than it is currently.

8. A lone Cleric will probably not be enough healing for a party of 5.

9. Tanks will tend to focus more on helping their Saving Throws, and defensive bonuses, than dealing more damage, and getting more hitpoints at higher levels. Expertise 5= In. Power Attack 5 = Out.

If you think those are true I may incorporate this variation as I think they would be improvements. As I haven't done alot of high level campaigning, I'm very interested to see what you have to say about that aspect in specific.

Thanks, I look forward to hearing your thoughts and replying to them to gain a better understanding of this.

 

[hong]

I use point buy for character creation, and 3/4 max HD per level for hit points after the first, rounded down. No randomness at all. Makes auditing character sheets much easier.

 

[TwoSix]

Yep, everybody gets 3/4 of their Hit Die in HP every level in my game also, although I just carry any fractions over. They get an additional 2 HPs at 1st level.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I give players max HP at first level and average rounded-down each level after. With as liberal as I am about most everything else, I feel no guilt in making whiners taste the No Stick.

 

[Valmur_Dwur]

What I do is the same as some of the others suggest max then 3/4 per level. For the monsters I do it as such. The mooks get basic numbers the leaders get max. also as the party goes up in levels then I start to make the monsters tougher so that maybe 1-2 in a group will have max HP and the BBEG also. This makes combats at the lower levels tough at the end to make it seem as if they did something. AS they go up it gets tougher to blow through to the BBEG. This also allows those "cannon-fodder" monsters like Hobgoblins to be used EVEN W/O A CHARACTER CLASS at higher levels because you've bumped their HP to max.

 

[Oni]

This thread just gave me a brainstorm.

What if characters didn't roll hp when leveling up, but instead got a couple extra skill points, then allow skill points to be spent to buy extra HP. 1:1 for wizards and such, 2:1 for clerics and rogues and such, 3:1 for fighter types.

Don't know if it has any merit or not, but thought struck me and i thought i'd put it down while it was there.

 

[Kyramus]

I had at one point debated on allowing players to choose if they use the ability score bonus every 4 levels and instead of applying it to a score, have an extra die of HP.

as I said, just debated, sounded cool, but I never implimented or tested the idea.

As for the Max HP for pcs and monsters.

Balance wise. For Characters, they are without a doubt the epitome of heroes.
For Monsters, they are without a doubt monsters of legend. So stuff that the players fight and win, would be the stuff of stories.

I'd say that even at low levels, bards begin to sing praises and songs and interviews after each adventure just becauce they fought off the MAX HP monsters.

With High magic and high power, you may even want to think ahead. Are there things like scrolls of Town Portals? If so, each time they return from the field to supply themselves, they will be accosted by bards.

Not to mention the death ratio should be significantly higher. Heroes that fail aren't reknown after all, only the victor dictates what history will become.

 

[Epametheus]

Hmm... Max HP for everything probably works in the favor of the monsters, by a long shot. One game I played in, the DM was fairly new and couldn't figure out how to reasonably deal with the half-dragon's damage capability. So he gave all of the monsters max HP.

And then the half-dragon's player missed a session, and the DM didn't bother to redo anything's HP. The next fight the party got into, they got schooled, and schooled badly. The fact that no one died was due to sheer dumb luck.

If the fighters don't focus on being damage dealers, they're going to get outstripped by the monsters pretty quickly.

Actually, if you're starting this at level 1, then it'll be interesting to see how many characters live through the first encounter with orcs. A generic orc can drop a 1st level character in one hit, and it'll probably get much uglier if it's unlikely for the orc to be dropped in one hit.

 

[Nifft]

Here's what I do: you get a number of bonus HP at character creation based on your race.

Half-Orcs & Native Outsiders: 10
Humans, Dwarves & Half-Elves: 8
Elves: 6
Halflings & Gnomes: 4

At all character levels, you roll for HP.

Monsters get bonus starting HP based on size and/or type:

Fey of Any Size: 6
Ooze: as below, plus size bonus in MM

Huge: 32
Large: 16
Medium: 8
Small: 4
Tiny: 2
Diminuitive: 1
Fine: 0

This makes a 1st level Human Mage as tough as a 1st level Halfling Fighter, but soon thereafter they depart. Fewer deaths, but critical hits still mean fights are dangerous.

-- Nifft

 

[gpetruc]

I think that this will hurt much the low HD classes: while a d6 does, on average, 2 points less than a d10, a maxed d6 is 4 points less than a maxed d10.
And so those who had low hp now will have even less and it would be much more dangerous to get into a fight (as monsters usually have a good hit die and so would benefit from this); those who already had many hp such as the barbarians will become even more stronger. This, IMHO, is not good, as will divide even more the classes in "melee ones" and "non melee ones" (and rogues and bards will be non-melee, probably, as most mosters have the d8 at least).

And I agree with Epametheus, a CR 1/2 Orc with 8 hp that already attacks at +3 dealing 1d12+3 will do double the damage, will be really scary at lvl 1, as it will easily kill any non-fighter (better hp and attacks, only less smaller AC).