Max number of days you can provision for?

[cavetroll]

Lets say you are going on a long underground dungeon delve and so you prepare for the worst at the city mark, stocking up on salted meat, some bread, water.
Basic mundane provisions. No magic elfin wafers.

What would you say the max number of days you could provision for before you out of food and need to return to the surface (assuming you find nothing edible below).

When I say I'm looking at a cross between food going to go bad, max weight, max bulkiness for a single person to carry, no mounts, no wheelbarrows.

 

[aco175]

Food and water takes up a lot of camping weight and space. A PC may need a gallon of water/day at 8lbs per gallon. If you cannot find/purify water on the trail you would need 56 pounds of water per week on top of your food weight. Traditionally, camping food like this is packaged in heavy packages since plastic was not invented, but it may also be partially dehydrated, requiring more water.

The PHB says the 1 day rations is dried foods like meats and nuts and weighs 2 pounds or 14 pounds per week. We are up to 70 pounds of gear now. Even hiring porters to carry more requires them to start with 70 pounds for themselves before they can carry more for you.

I can see this getting a debate on the carry rules and real life capacity carrying a ruck. What is the other gear carried? What is the class and strength of the PC? Is water available? Bag of Holding?

 

[cavetroll]

For sake of arguments lets say its a Fighter, above average strength with chainmail, shield, longsword.
Sounds like you are saying the food is easy to carry 3 weeks, its the water that would burden you if you can't get a source.
So if you go with a a large waterskin that is only good for a day before you are soon running into trouble.

 

[Scott Christian]

If you just have four people going into a cave with no or little magic, there will also be the factor of oil for light.

As far as food goes, it really does depend on what they choose to carry. Water is absolutely the heaviest component. Just three days of water for me in the desert of Joshua Tree weighed about 30 pounds; food, not nearly as much. Dried meats, nuts, bars, etc. This also assumes the group is doing no cooking with water. If they are reconstituting things for soup and stuff, forget about it. Three or four days, maybe five at the most.

But if your group is going bare minimum, and they need to bring water, I would say seven or eight days until the old hunger crankiness sets in.

 

[GMMichael]

I wouldn't include water in rations-weight. I assume most water sources were potable, as long as they were pre-industrial age. So 2 pounds per day of dry rats is fair.

One pound of fat (butter) is what, 3500 kcalories? That puts one pound of carbs/protein at 1750 calories. I'd expect adventuring to require well over 2000 kcals per day...

 

[tomBitonti]

Here is a good thread that suggests 1.5 lbs/day plus or minus 0.5 pounds/day.

food weight per day when using dehydrated meals - Backpacking Light

Hi, I remember reading that a rough guideline for the amount of the food to bring on a backpacking trip is around 1.5lbs/day +/- 0.5 lbs. How is this guideline...

backpackinglight.com

You’ll need to specify an effort level and fitness. People can survive a long time on fat and muscle:

A pound of body fat may contain anywhere from 3,436 to 3,752 calories.

On the other hand, for strenuous activity in cold weather, caloric demands can get to the range of 4000-5000 calories/day:

Under sedentary conditions in the cold, requirements may range from 3,632 to 4,317 kcal/d or about 46 to 57 kcal per kg body weight per day. In more highly strenuous circumstances in the cold, requirements of 4,200 to around 5,000 kcal/d, or 54 to 62 kcal per kg body weight per day, may be required.

To maintain body weight with minimal activity, a 30yr old male, 6’ and 180 lbs, needs about 2300 cal/day (Calorie calculator). Using the same calculator, that increases to 3200 cal/day with strenuous activity.

TomB

 

[D1Tremere]

It greatly depends on class/race composition. No need to worry much about food/water if you have a Druid for example, and Warforged cut down on mouths to feed.
That said, no need to take more than a few days rations into the dungeon so long as you have some Survival skill with which to forage.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Water is the key issue. Unless it is moving water, water sources will be contaminated, and even running water will be very untrustworthy, as it is usually doubling as a sewer, or has creatures living in it. So you will have to carry a pint of vinegar per person per day, at 8 pounds to the gallon. If there is no water sources in the dungeon (unlikely unless it is inhabited only by things that do not eat), one gallon a day per person (again, 8 pounds per gallon). Dry rations (jerky, hardtack, oatmeal, dried vegetables) will run about 4 pounds per person per day, but you are going to have to carry a container in which to boil water to prepare the food.

Lighting is a key issue, unless you have magic or natural night vision for everyone; lantern oil will be consumed 24/7, and while it is not as heavy as water, it isn't light.

You're going to need a packbearer or a mule to haul in rations and water for more than a 1-2 day foray, and to pack out loot. I like to make loot a little bulky and heavy, like an ornately decorated chest made of rare wood instead of a half-pound of coins.

And unless they're bringing along bedrolls, resting is going to be minimally effective.

Ammunition adds up quick, because arrows that miss are going to hit stone, and arrows that hit frequently take damage.

 

[GMMichael]

It greatly depends on class/race composition. No need to worry much about food/water if you have a Druid for example, and Warforged cut down on mouths to feed.

Fun fact: if you need extra wood or oil, you can sacrifice your warforged.

Water is the key issue. Unless it is moving water, water sources will be contaminated, and even running water will be very untrustworthy, as it is usually doubling as a sewer, or has creatures living in it.

Smell test. Alternatively, one PC hauls a pot, and water gets boiled at each rest stop. The warforged makes a good fire pit, too, if you can get it to sit cross -legged.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Fun fact: if you need extra wood or oil, you can sacrifice your warforged.


Smell test. Alternatively, one PC hauls a pot, and water gets boiled at each rest stop. The warforged makes a good fire pit, too, if you can get it to sit cross -legged.

Smell won't detect cholera. Boiling works, but it is time and fuel consuming. You'll need an oil-based heating element because wood underground is going to create serious issues.

Boiling water will take about 20-40 minutes per gallon (each PC needs a gallon a day). A simpler method is just to add a pint of vinegar per gallon of water and wait about thirty minutes. That should kill just about anything.

Bad water was the scourge of the world until the mid-late 19th century. It killed more warriors than war did.