Max number of days you can provision for?

[overgeeked]

Lets say you are going on a long underground dungeon delve and so you prepare for the worst at the city mark, stocking up on salted meat, some bread, water.
Basic mundane provisions. No magic elfin wafers.

What would you say the max number of days you could provision for before you out of food and need to return to the surface (assuming you find nothing edible below).

When I say I'm looking at a cross between food going to go bad, max weight, max bulkiness for a single person to carry, no mounts, no wheelbarrows.

The amounts vary widely. If we're talking D&D terms, there's an even wider variation. In 5E, a medium-sized creature needs one gallon of water per day (assuming normal temperature range) and one pound of food per day. One gallon of water weighs about 8.5 pounds, not counting the container it comes in...round that up to 9 for ease of use. One pound of food weighs...about one pound, but I could be wrong, not counting the container it comes in. Which means you need 10 pounds of food and water per day, not counting any containers.

An average person (STR 10) can carry up to 150 pounds. If that's all food & water, that's 15 days. A STR 20 character can carry up to 300 pounds. Again, if it's all food & water, that's 30 days...without an ounce of other gear. Races like bugbears and goliaths have traits that double that carrying capacity, so anywhere from STR 10 carrying 300 pounds (30 days) to STR 20 carrying 600 pounds (60 days).

In 5E there are no rules for food spoiling or water turning foul. It all depends on how its stored and what it's exposed to. Assuming eating the perishable stuff first and the preserved stuff later and that the water is sufficiently sealed, it should all last as long as you need it. But that is a bit handwavy.

 

[Morrus]

Somebody should write a full exploration pillar which takes this stuff into account.

Wait, what?

 

[Greggy C]

Somebody should write a full exploration pillar which takes this stuff into account.

Wait, what?

Someone should do a youtube vlog, go underground with full plate armor, backpack, longbow, two swords, 50' hemp rope, 10' pole, provisions for a week and 10,000 gold pieces.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Somebody should write a full exploration pillar which takes this stuff into account.

Wait, what?

Yes, this problem has been solved multiple times, right back to the TSR era (where bean-counting the consumables and weighing them against room for treasure was part of the fun). But yes, feel free to pat yourself on the back. Level-Up's exploration pillar rules are very good.

As are Forbidden Lands, if one wants to port from a different system. They use an abstract dice method which does a good job of mapping-but-abstracting concepts like 'food may spoil, water may not last as long as you think it will, sometimes you'll make do with less than expected, etc.'

To the broader realism question, it is going to depend a lot on how strenuous the actual activity is. Modern militaries tend to treat days in the field as being 3500-4000 kcal events, but those tend to have 10 mile hikes in the middle. What does 'a long underground dungeon delve' look like? Constant climbing and moving and hiking down corridors and maybe digging out half buried doors or treasure chests, or conversely slowly creeping down corridors trying not to make any noise and then wordlessly waiting a half hour while the thief picks a lock?

Another thing to consider is whether these are rich or poor adventurers. Like today, the finest in ultralight expedition equipment costs money. Pemmican is incredibly calorie dense, but you can't feed an army (or 4 starting PCs) on it all the time.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Someone should do a youtube vlog, go underground with full plate armor, backpack, longbow, two swords, 50' hemp rope, 10' pole, provisions for a week and 10,000 gold pieces.

I mean, that is the primary constraint of trying to map realism to the endeavor -- what PCs do is inherently unrealistic, as there aren't a lot of huge holes in the ground full of treasure, and if you were to explore the ones that exist, you probably have a wagon train, and don't need weapons of war, etc.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I mean, that is the primary constraint of trying to map realism to the endeavor -- what PCs do is inherently unrealistic, as there aren't a lot of huge holes in the ground full of treasure, and if you were to explore the ones that exist, you probably have a wagon train, and don't need weapons of war, etc.

Or you could serve in the military, and get a keen understanding of living under primitive conditions while carrying far too much weight.

25 miles is just a number until you're covered it on foot with full kit and a unit of fire.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Or you could serve in the military, and get a keen understanding of living under primitive conditions while carrying far too much weight.

25 miles is just a number until you're covered it on foot with full kit and a unit of fire.

Bravo to anyone willing to serve one's country. Most of my gaming group is Vets and I applaud them greatly. However once again we are extrapolating from an inexact model. Modern military has modern rations and modern containers. They also aren't treasure hunting in subterranean caves full of monsters.

 

[Bluenose]

If's going to depend on what's available in the environment to a large degree, as anything that isn't available will need to be carried in.
Historical armies (and navies) tried to provide anything from 3lbs to 7lbs of rations per day to their soldiers, not including water. A fair average is around 5lbs, If you want water too, you're looking at a minimum of 20lbs per day for consumption, sanitation and cooking with, and if you want to stay healthy you need the half devoted to washing and cooking. Putting that together, adding in daily firewood, oil, and other consumables then a three day trip is pretty close to the upper limit if you can't resupply on the way.
If anyone is thinking of taking pack animals, those require a lot of fodder and more water than humans. If you're willing to take them part of the way, slaughter them, and can preserve their meat then you can perhaps add a couple more days to that trip.
If I had to do it, some sort of travois might be my solution, increasing the "carrying" capacity but also slowing the movement rate. Cut it off once you've emptied it, and you can possibly add a day or two to the trip.
As the numbers I propose suggest, water is by some way the largest weight component on the consumable side. If that's available then there's a considerable extension to how far you could travel, probably doubling what you can do. But if there's water, there's probably something alive, and that may be edible, and possibly you can burn something you find and don't need firewood, and if you're good enough at foraging in an area you know then you could plausibly not need very much at all.
Basically though, most games far underestimate how much people need to carry as consumables, and going for what is realistic is not necessarily fun if you want epic adventures in the most hostile terrain. Bearing in mind that underground races implies underground life (and other resources) I'd be more inclined to allow most areas to be hospitable enough once characters are familiar with them , and only a few to match the more hostile surface areas (such as deserts, tundra, and mountain ranges.

 

[Greggy C]

I mean, that is the primary constraint of trying to map realism to the endeavor -- what PCs do is inherently unrealistic,

Fantasy is about suspending disbelief for enjoyment. I can easily suspend disbelief such that Gandalf can defeat a Balrog.
But if Gandalf carrying 5 weapons and 500lbs of loot, then I can't imagine that.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Fantasy is about suspending disbelief for enjoyment. I can easily suspend disbelief such that Gandalf can defeat a Balrog.
But if Gandalf carrying 5 weapons and 500lbs of loot, then I can't imagine that.

I'm really not sure which direction you are trying to argue. I'm simply listing a constraint on the Original Post's primary question.

If you can't believe Gandalf carrying 500 lbs of loot, can you believe a heroic fighter wandering into the wilderness in full harness without horse and retainers and crawling into caves and caverns? If so, there is probably going to be a place where you will have to define what level of realism you desire.