[Maximized, Chained] Ray of Enfeeblement

[reiella]

Which is what a Ray does - target a single creature or object.

"You can chain any spell that specifies a single target and has a range greater than touch." T&B p. 39

I believe rays fall into this category. They hit a single target and have a range greater than touch.

At least in 3.5 (SRD) this is not the case.

Disintegrate

Transmutation
Level: Destruction 7, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes

The spell has no target, no does the spell include a "This spell functions like" line to assume that the target designation is attached to another spell. The same holds true for Ray of Enfeeblement both in the 3.0 PH and the 3.5 SRD as well (Well as well as the Disintegrate 3.0 PH).

Might be semantics, but I think that a ray behaves in a manner similiar to Spreads (As it is an 'Effect' type spell). Also given that it can be 'intercepted' or blocked by creatures in the way, I'd hesitate to say it is literally a Targeted spell.

[ Edit / Add ]
And no you can't Chain Lightning Bolt . And Chain Lightning is different than the theoretical Chained Lightning Bolt. For one, Chain Lightning doesn't have multiple 5' wide lines or even a single 5' wide line occuring zapping folks, also the damage cap is 20d6 (versus 10d6). Along with a different range category.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I believe rays fall into this category. They hit a single target and have a range greater than touch.

They don't specify a single target. They don't specify a target at all; they simply produce a ray. If you elect to hit someone with that ray, that's up to you, but the spell does not specify a single target

Another thing. You can chain lightning bolt...

No, you can't.

At least I assume you can chain lightning bolt, since the 6th level Chain Lightning spell is what the Chain Spell metamagic was based upon.

Whether it was the inspiration for the feat or not doesn't change the fact that Lightning Bolt is most certainly an invalid spell for use with the Chain Spell feat.

If you want to hit multiple creatures with electricity, cast Chain Lightning. Don't try to use Chain Spell on Lightning Bolt, 'cos it won't work.

And if you can chain a line, you certainly should be able to chain a ray.

But since you can't chain a line, that line (ahem) of argument falls a little flat...

-Hyp.

 

[Pax]

Ladies, ladies.

Check the wording of hte Split Ray feat - it's the same as the wording for the Chain Spell feat. Obviously, the intent was to be able to chain Ray spells with Chain Spell, just as the intent of Split Ray is to be able to split a Ray spell ... even though the feat is badly worded.

After all, it's not like we've ever seen badly worded rules from WOTC before, now have we?

In the case of a chained ray (or any other spell that required a to-hit roll), such as Ray of Enfeeblement, I'd require the same attack roll to be compared to the AC of all secondary targets, and I'd only allow secondary hits, if the primary attack managed to "connect". I say "the same attack roll", simply because that minimises the number of times you have to roll that d20 ...

 

[Caliban]

Ladies, ladies.

Check the wording of hte Split Ray feat - it's the same as the wording for the Chain Spell feat. Obviously, the intent was to be able to chain Ray spells with Chain Spell, just as the intent of Split Ray is to be able to split a Ray spell ... even though the feat is badly worded.

After all, it's not like we've ever seen badly worded rules from WOTC before, now have we?

In the case of a chained ray (or any other spell that required a to-hit roll), such as Ray of Enfeeblement, I'd require the same attack roll to be compared to the AC of all secondary targets, and I'd only allow secondary hits, if the primary attack managed to "connect". I say "the same attack roll", simply because that minimises the number of times you have to roll that d20 ...

I think the intent was that you can Split Rays, not Chain them. That's why there are two seperate feats.

I agree with Hyp on this one.

 

[Pax]

Two seperate feats, written by the same person, with identical wording. 1+1, in this case, does not make 3; it seems abundantly clear, the intent for both was to be able to affect rays.

 

[Thanee]

Hmm... if you can chain ray spells (at least your argument is plausible enough), can you also chain spells like Scorching Ray, that can affect multiple targets, if you only target one target with it? Guess not, eh?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Oh, and BTW, Empower Spell is actually better than Maximize Spell with Ray of Enfeeblement.

1: -9
2: -10
3: -12
4: -13
5: -15
6: -16

So only the 1 and 2 are worse, altho only slightly, and even a 3 (below average) is better. On average it deals a Str penalty of 12.5!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Pax]

Thanee: as a GM, my houserule is: Empower only affects the actual random element, not the straight addition portion(s), of any spell's effects. Thus, an Empowered Magic Missile spell would deal 1+(1.5 x 1d4) per missile, not 1.5x(1d4+1) per missile.

Thus, a Ray of Enfeeblement cast by a 10th level caster would give you 10+(1.5 x 1d6), rather than 1.5x(1d6+10).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Check the wording of hte Split Ray feat - it's the same as the wording for the Chain Spell feat. Obviously, the intent was to be able to chain Ray spells with Chain Spell, just as the intent of Split Ray is to be able to split a Ray spell ... even though the feat is badly worded.

As worded in Tome and Blood, the Split Ray feat cannot actually affect Rays.

That's why the Tome and Blood FAQ says the following regarding Split Ray:

Note that the descriptive text for this feat should read:
You can split the effect of a ray spell, which are spells that
have an “Effect: Ray” entry. The split ray affects any two
targets that are both within the spell’s range and are also
within 30 feet of each other. If the ray spell deals damage,
each target takes half as much damage as normally indicated
(round down). If the ray spell has a nondamaging effect, each
target has a 50% chance to take the nondamaging effect. This
could result in one, neither, or both targets taking the
nondamaging effect. For example, you split a disintegrate
spell. You roll to hit each target, and there is a 50% chance
that any target you hit is subject to disintegration. A target
subject to disintegration is allowed a normal saving throw.
Failure results in disintegration and success results in 5d6
points of damage, divided by 2.
If desired, you could make both rays attack the same
target. A split ray uses up a spell slot zero levels higher than
the spell’s actual level (the same level as the original spell).

So now we have the Split Ray feat, which affects any ray spell (any spell with an Effect: Ray entry), and the Chain Spell feat, which affects any spell that specifies a single target and has a range greater than touch.

The sets of affected spells are mutually exclusive.

-Hyp.

 

[Li Shenron]

I also add that when I first read the T&B Chain Spell, I thought that it wasn't meant to apply to any spell that required an attack roll because it could have raised the question: what if I miss the first target? And if I don't, what if I miss any other target in the chain, does the spell arc to next or it cut off? Perhaps it has nothing to do with the feat, but that's why I always thought that you couldn't chain rays nor touch spells.