Maximum Hit Points

[tburdett]

We use maximum hit points per level up to level 10 and then half hit points per level after that. Makes the early levels a little more survivable.

 

[Li Shenron]

No offense, but especially at the lower point-buys you won't see points that would have been in Constitution placed in Int, Wis, or Cha (particularly for Fighters). You'll just see higher strength and dexterity, which will make them do slightly more damage, slightly more accurate in ranged combat, and may increase their AC. In exchange, they will have lower fort saves and about the same average hit points.

Consider a fighter who would normally have put a 14 in Constitution. He still wants a bonus, so he leaves it at 12, which is reasonable under a max hp situation. With the 2 floating points he could raise his dexterity, intelligence, or charisma 2 points or raise his strength 1 point (assuming he began with at least a 14 in strength). Its possible that he takes one of the non-physical stats (particularly if he's interested in multiclassing), but I don't think you'll see it. YMMV

MMV!

I am even playing in one of the probably few groups left in the world who plays point-buy with only 28 points, and there's lots of reasons to put extra points in Int and Wis even for fighters (Int = defensive feats chain, Wis = improved chances of avoid surprise, and protection from spells).

In my exp most characters (and I mean 90%+) using point buy have a 16 or more in their primary stat. Few fighters created with point buy start with 14 strength. That means (of course, if you assume that the point-buy rules have progressive costs) that with the points saved by taking a Con 10 instead of higher, a player will have to choose between a small improvement to something he's already good at or a big improvement to a stat he had a 10 (or small improvements to TWO lesser stats). I think you'll see players make different choices.

Finally, it creates a reason to have a high con as a high-HD class - to try and devalue those low rolls. Maybe you only rolled a 3 on your d10, but with your Con bonus you're still getting 6 hit points for the level. If the 10 con rogue maxes his roll, you'll still outstrip his hp (based on first level differences and con differences over time). When the fighter doesn't need a high Con, it just feels less like d&d to me...

Well this is probably unsolvable... Normally high CON is a must for low-HD classes and an option for high-HD classes. What we would like to see, is more low-CON wizards/rogues and high-CON fighters/barbarians since this makes more sense image-wise.

But if we boost HP we get more low-CON of every class, and if we reduce HP we get more high-CON of every class...

However now that I think about it, a flat "full HP" house rule probably increases the number of low-CON fighters/barbs more than it increases the number of low-CON wizards/rogues. So overall it's not that great... except for the benefit or removing randomness.

 

[Engilbrand]

The few games I'm in give full hitpoints for the first 3 levels. We still almost die all of the time. It just keeps us from ACTUALLY dieing. In one of those games, the rule is also that you can then take your roll or the DM's. You choose after you roll. When my guy gets a 1 or a 2, I'll take the DM's 4.

 

[Technik4]

I am even playing in one of the probably few groups left in the world who plays point-buy with only 28 points, and there's lots of reasons to put extra points in Int and Wis even for fighters (Int = defensive feats chain, Wis = improved chances of avoid surprise, and protection from spells).

I just started playing in a 28 point buy campaign in FR (and its low-magic, if you can imagine that). My d&d days have been filled with brutal DMs, strict DMs, and my own DMing (which is a mixture of the two, though a little more lenient). I'm playing a gnome druid, 10/14/16/10/15/10. I would have liked to get 2 points of Charisma or Intelligence, but it was a new campaign in a new group. I didn't want to kick it off getting myself killed, so I went for the big Con. Its one of the tougher stats to roleplay, so I didn't incorperate it int my backstory. Since the DM and one of the players expressed disdain for me choosing to play a druid (they saw on a messageboard that it is the most powerful class in 3.5.... ), I was a little paranoid to begin with. My original concept was Druid/Monk (I love monks), but it doesn't look like that will fit the campaign (The DM is very by-the-book in terms of multiclassing).

In my exp most characters (and I mean 90%+) using point buy have a 16 or more in their primary stat. Few fighters created with point buy start with 14 strength.

MMV! Point Buy in general encourages buying up to 14 as you are still on a 1:1 basis. Things get really expensive for nominal differences and you have even less points to diversify your non-essential stats the higher you go. At lower point buys, this actually gives incentives (beyond roleplaying) to play a different class. Of course, I prefer rolling for stats because you end up with less computer-y stats (as my gnome druid above, sadly feels).

 

[Eloi]

.. In one of those games, the rule is also that you can then take your roll or the DM's. You choose after you roll. When my guy gets a 1 or a 2, I'll take the DM's 4.

I'm in a group that lets you roll.. and then you can choose to ask the GM to roll once, and if he rolls, you take the result of his roll.

This does save the bacon of some low-rolling folks. I'd be totally in favor of taking maximum hit points per level, or even max-1, rather than rolling - I really don't fancy that dread "1" result.

 

[sigma999]

Wow I read the whole thread and now have nothing to post because any idea I came up with was mentioned. Very nice idea, and maximum HP works for me and my group ... T_T

 

[anon]

Level=1: max die + Con modifier
Level>1: max of {die roll, Con modifier, or new ECL÷4} + Con modifier

Example: Fighter 1 with Con 16 (+3) starts with 13 HPs. When leveling to 2nd fighter rolls a 2, but Con mod is +3, so new HPs are 3 + 3 (Con) = 6. Total HPs are 13 + 6 = 19.

Example: Wizard 7 with Con 10 has 20 HPs. When leveling to 8th level wizard rolls a 1, but new ECL÷4 is 2 so new HPs are 2. Total HPs are 20 + 2 = 22.

 

[Jdvn1]

I decided to use the max hp rule in my most recent game because I have a small party, and because since it draws out battles a little longer, I think low level combat can feel a little more scenic. It's also not a significant power boost. I usually give monsters a boost as well, but usually not as far as max hp (though last battle was max plus a couple).

A 4th level fighter with a Con of 14 and random HP rolls will have approximately 35 hit points (10 + (3x5.5) + 8). A fighter with a Con of 10 would have approximately 27 hit points.
A 4th level fighter with a Con of 14 and maximum HP rolls will have 44 hit points. A fighter with a Con of 10 would have 36 hit points (which is still 1 more than the random HP rolled fighter!).

A 4th level wizard with a Con of 14 and random HP rolls will have approximately 20 hit points (4 + (3x2.5) + 8). A wizard with a Con of 10 would have approximately 12 hit points.
A 4th level wizard with a Con of 14 and maximum HP rolls will have 24 hit points. A wizard with a Con of 10 would have 16 hit points (4 less than the randomly rolled HP wizard!).

Clearly Con remains important for low HD characters, yet decreases in value for large HD characters. This is actually the REVERSE of what you think of when you imagine the classes. The typical wizard should have less Con than the average fighter. Yet, using a maximum hit point rule, I think you will find that the lower HD classes will be more inclined to raise their Con than the higher HD classes.

You're making a logical leap from "high HD chars have less of a difference" to "Con is less important for low HD chars." Your numbers don't support your conclusion. How many hit points you take is also a function of "Con importance;" that is to say, 1 hp for a Fighter might be worth as much as or more than 4 hp for a Wizard.

Also, if you change from comparing 14 to 10, to comparing 14 to 12, you see less of a difference. What does that tell me? That max hp is equivalent to a very minor boost to everyone's Con (as far as hp goes).

 

[Jdvn1]

Level=1: max die + Con modifier
Level>1: max of {die roll, Con modifier, or new ECL÷4} + Con modifier

Does a level 20 Wizard get 5 + Con? ie, above what's normally possible?

 

[anon]

Perhaps. Hasn't happened yet.

If a Wizard makes it that far, don't they deserve it?