Maze spell: do you allow it?

[Aaron]

Straight to the topic: the sorcerer of the group I'm dming has reached the 16h caster level and would select the Maze spell.

The spell in itself seems to me a little over the edge, if compared to other core 8th level spells, but I would like to obtain some feedback before saying "No", which is something I'm not accustomed to do with my players.

Thanks in advance.

 

[frankthedm]

Plenty of other spells to worry about is my first thought. Any particular reason you'd worry about this spell?

* in related matters, In My Game if a minotaur has the spell cast on them, they can chose to enter the maze as an Immediate action and use it as a Dimension Door.

 

[Nebten]

Over the edge . . . its an 8th level spell! That's what they are supposed to be =v) While there is no save it can be affected by SR. As he is fighting something that has a 10 or greater Int, they will be back in the fight soon.

Besides its a classic spell.

 

[RangerWickett]

Thing is, maze doesn't defeat the enemy; it just delays you fighting him. It's very strong when the party has only one or a handful of foes, but if they're fighting larger groups of enemies, it's perfectly fine.

And really fun with spell turning enemies.

 

[ashockney]

No spell of the level (16th) can do what this spell can do without a save. It is ignorantly potent against elite or solo high level BBEG's, which makes it inherently overpowered. Any spell in which the DM is FORCED to change their encounters to fit the new, expansive powers, something isn't right. (I'm looking at you, haste.)

Now, having said that, does it single-handedly RUIN a campaign? No, certainly not. If your sorc could use some time in the spotlight, this will give it to him, especially RIGHT at 16th.

As others have indicated, there are four primary "counters" to the maze domination effect: minotaurs, insanely high int, MR, and larger encounter sizes. The MR and larger encounters will be a natural outgrowth of higher levels, so it won't be too impactful in the big scheme.

If you wanted to "nerf" it a bit, offer a standard Will save as a FULL ROUND ACTION. Simplifies (less sub-rules to remember) and still a powerfully effective spell, and one that against the right target (a giant) can be devastating.

 

[Ahnehnois]

The 3.0 version did not allow SR, and I didn't like that.

As for the current version, however, it is good for two things: stalling so you can buff/heal/run and splitting up groups of powerful enemies. By itself the spell is totally harmless. I have no problem with it at all.

By comparison, Otto's Irresistable Dance allows to save and makes the subject highly vulnerable to attack, but has a shorter duration and range. Seems equitable to me.

 

[the Jester]

Maze is absolutely okay. It's not even especially powerful for its level, which also includes goodies like Otto's irresistible dance, horrid wilting, prismatic wall and so forth... and that's just from the PH! 8th level spells should kick tons of ass, that is what makes 'em 8th level.

I think that there are plenty of other 8th level spells that are harder to deal with, probably even without thinking about metamagicked spells in 8th-level slots. Hell, just be glad he isn't taking mind blank.

 

[Rabulias]

Some may think this heresy, but I have sometimes thought that Maze is a bit weak for an 8th level spell.

As RangerWickett notes, it just delays your confrontation. You can use that time to get flee, deal with other foes, or to buff up and get in position for your opponent's return from the Maze.

If you just want to flee, Greater Teleport (7th level) is about the same effect. To take one foe out of the fight for a few rounds, I consider this like Hold Monster (5th Level) but with no saving throw; is no save really worth a 3-level increase in spell level for this effect? True, saving throws are better than Int checks for many creatures, but held victims can be wounded, CDG'd, tied up, caught in area effects, etc., while those in the Maze are safe from harm, so I think it balances out.

Note also the spell description says the victim of the Maze spell "may attempt a DC 20 Intelligence check to escape" (emphasis mine).

I read that to mean that the victim may choose to remain in the Maze and do some prep/buffing of their own before they leave... and a desperate wizard could Maze himself to get 10 minutes away from someone or something.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Maze is fine, l2play. Nerf SR. K thanks bye.

Er, sorry, wrong forums.

In all honesty, there are much worse spells at 8th level. I've really not seen anyone use maze except as a means of then using teleport to escape.

At 8th level, there are some killer spells much more damaging than Maze.

 

[Nifft]

IMHO polymorph any object would promote much more actual abuse.

Don't worry about little ol' maze.

Cheers, -- N