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Me. Myself and a Munchkin.

Bonedagger

First Post
Lately I have heard a lot about the therm "Munchkin" so I started wondering about what this mysterious word cover. I sat, I thought and I concluded the following:

A munchkin in my book is someone who doesn't really play a character but just some stats.... One who make some stats and then almost forgets to name his charater. I'm not tallking about rule lawers. I'm talking about one whos idea of a good character equals maximized stats. If that cannot be then a munchkin will try and find some way by which he can ignore those dump-stats he might end up with.

But now for my question. Is this different from how other define a munchkin?

- By Dagger O. Bone

Edit: A serious typo.. Shudder
 
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Sodalis

First Post
my idea of a munchkin is:
a person that does not play the game as intended, but a game within a game. Whether it is trying to persuade the Dm to give him his way (and thereby winning if he is able to) or one upping the other players (and thereby winnign when he is able to)

In any case, the "game" is an underlying motive for the social activity. He gets together and creates a char for DND only to try and outdo someone else in the group, and feel a sense of pride in himself.

anyone that does not RP in a RP game is considered a munchkin in my books: (type: underlying game)
*rules lawyer: to expose the DM, or other playeers for not knowing the rules- and exploiting them to his advantage
*min/maxer: to get the best stats possible
*powergamer: to get the best equipment possible

i cant think of anymore right now... but i shall return
 

Bonedagger

First Post
Sodalis said:
*min/maxer: to get the best stats possible
*powergamer: to get the best equipment possible

The one who decline points in a pointbuy is rare indeed and there would be a fine line between powergaming and clever reasoning.

.... So are we not all (almost :)) guilty of those?
 
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Valicor

First Post
Sodalis said:
*min/maxer: to get the best stats possible
*powergamer: to get the best equipment possible

Guess I'm both then. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be strong. It can be a great motivation for RP.
 
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drizzit

First Post
well, every gamer i know considers me one of the biggest munchkins they have ever met. yet my characters aren't just a collection of stats and equimpent. i write epic backstories for my characters. i do my best to play every character to his backstory, distinct personality and statistics to boot (had a blast playing a chaotic neutral fighter with a low CHA once). so here's my take on what a munchkin is:

a player who may or may not roleplay a character well (it's irrelevant), but attempts to make the character as obscenely uber as possible without cheating. he uses rules, loop holes in rules and some off the wall logic to make his character extremely powerful. but it must be done within the rules. cheating makes you just that, a cheater. munchkins take joy in finding some new, twisted use for an obscure spell, skill or feat (i was heart broken when, after coming up with a great use for create water, i found that you cannot create it inside of other creatures). that, is a munckin.
 


KnowTheToe

First Post
Metagaming and playing for stats. Players that are studying on which feat combos can combine to create an unbalancing character. Everyone I have ever met is partially a munchkin, but it is combining character creation with metagaming in mind that can hurt a game.
 

Sollir Furryfoot

First Post
Originally posted by Drizit:

a player who may or may not roleplay a character well (it's irrelevant), but attempts to make the character as obscenely uber as possible without cheating. he uses rules, loop holes in rules and some off the wall logic to make his character extremely powerful. but it must be done within the rules. cheating makes you just that, a cheater. munchkins take joy in finding some new, twisted use for an obscure spell, skill or feat (i was heart broken when, after coming up with a great use for create water, i found that you cannot create it inside of other creatures). that, is a munckin.

I agree whole-hardedly with this decision, although I am a munchkin :) I do fit into both the min/maxer and powergamer descriptions Sodalis presented.

Also, Drizit, have you considered getting a high level cleric to take innate spell of create water and then use it to create water as high as you can over an opponent's head? I believe the damage was pretty good for the weight of water falling down from a high place...
 

bloodymage

House Ruler
drizzit said:

a player who may or may not roleplay a character well (it's irrelevant), but attempts to make the character as obscenely uber as possible without cheating. he uses rules, loop holes in rules and some off the wall logic to make his character extremely powerful. but it must be done within the rules. cheating makes you just that, a cheater. munchkins take joy in finding some new, twisted use for an obscure spell, skill or feat (i was heart broken when, after coming up with a great use for create water, i found that you cannot create it inside of other creatures). that, is a munckin.

Agreed.

Maximum
Uber
Nuke
Character
Having
Killer
Insane
Numbers

The Sultans of Smack, of course, epitomize munchkinism. Not a devotee myself, but sometimes it is fun!
 

drizzit

First Post
Sollir Furryfoot said:




take innate spell of create water and then use it to create water as high as you can over an opponent's head?

hehe, never thought of that, thanks! right up there with using Polymorph Any Object to turn the several cubic feet of air in someone's lungs into acid or using Telekenesis to move an object (such as the victim's spleen) about. thanx again for the tip! my DM'll be quite disgusted!

mat
 

drizzit

First Post
KnowTheToe said:
it is combining character creation with metagaming in mind that can hurt a game.

depending on the player, it can hurt a game. but with the right type of munchkin it can actually add to the game, especially as far as interesting encounters go (particuarly with spellcasters)

mat
 

Weeble

First Post
drizzit said:


depending on the player, it can hurt a game. but with the right type of munchkin it can actually add to the game, especially as far as interesting encounters go (particuarly with spellcasters)

mat

I disagree. Metagaming of any kind is wrong and completely against the reason anyone plays D&D.
 


reapersaurus

First Post
bloodymage said:
The Sultans of Smack, of course, epitomize munchkinism.
I completely disagree.

Munchkins CHEAT.
They try to slide incorrect rulings and interpretations past the DM and get special "broken" PrC's and even base classes, races, feats, and spells approved.

Powergamers try to maximize effectiveness within the rules.

Now, that wasn't so hard now, was it? ;)
 

Humanophile

First Post
I'm still gonna go with my definition...

Munchkinism is not so much directly about stats, power, or even metagaming. Rather, it's all about a style of play wherein the one player's idea of "fun" and ego gratification is considered important to the exclusion of anyone else's. Especially if that fun comes from stepping all over everyone else's toes (the type who either fudges to have all applicable skills at high levels, or otherwise outright cheats in order to have high skills in everything), or even who seems to get their jollies off of abusing other PC's and NPC's.
 

LostSoul

Adventurer
I agree with reapersaurus: Munchkins cheat in order to be "better".

It's like creating a character with two 18s and four 12s under 25 point buy.
 

LostSoul

Adventurer
Weeble said:
I disagree. Metagaming of any kind is wrong and completely against the reason anyone plays D&D.

That's funny; I always thought that early forms of D&D (1e) were meant to be metagamed. At least in parts.

I mean, you don't see Tomb of Horrors calling for Int checks all over the place to determine if characters can figure out a trap.

Then again, maybe my definition of metagaming (which is: playing the game as if it is a game, not as though you are running a character) is different or flawed.
 

Weeble

First Post
LostSoul said:


That's funny; I always thought that early forms of D&D (1e) were meant to be metagamed. At least in parts.


Metagaming is using player knowledge that a character wouldn't have for the benefit of that character.

*A mild case of this would be a character drinking a potion of bull's strength and casting Arcane Armor while traveling in the woods just because the player sees the DM roll a bunch of d20s thinking "he must be rolling Move Silently checks or Spot checks."

*From mild to moderate would be one player having a character out of sight and sound of the rest of the party, then something bad happening to this character, followed by another player saying "Bozo rushes to the aid of Dork!", at which point the DM would say "stop metagaming!"

*And from moderate to horrid (and the one I love the most as a DM) is when a player goes out and buys or downloads the adventure after the first session and before completion, then mysteriously, and with ponderous acting, seems to know the answers to the key parts of the adventure.
 
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