Mearls: Abilities as the core?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I agree - but how does that relate to the previous comments? I said 4E is the best Gamist engine so far produced - I stand by that. That fact that WotC/Mike Mearls aren't satisfied with it isn't really relevant to that. I suspect that its performance as a Gamist-supporting system is not what they are dissatisfied with.

Since the discussion is what they're going to do next, the fact that they're not happy with the game's performance -- whatever its virtues -- is pretty much the most important given in the discussion.

4E could turn everything that it touched to gold, but if they want to scrap it -- which is not an unreasonable inference from Mearls' recent columns -- it won't stop them.

 

[KidSnide]

I really feel that Mearls' articles are leading to a new edition.

Lower commercial success could easily lead WotC to make the lifecycle of 4th edition shorter than the lifecycle of 3rd edition. So, I think it's perfectly plausible to imagine WotC working on a 5th edition now. That having been said, it takes a long time to make a major edition upgrade and one would imagine that WotC is fairly early in that process. Unless this is part of a much larger effort to rope in 3rd party support (which would probably result in some design leakage), any sort of announcement seems quite premature.

-KS

 

[pawsplay]

He does seem to be going somewhere with these...

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Minimalist D&D)

WTH? My designs on Conquest of the Universe keep getting smaller and tidier, and then I read this:

You already have a Constitution score. While your Constitution modifier can factor into a save or defense, why bother with that step? Why not just use your Constitution score as a defense and your modifier as a saving throw? In terms of story, we see the same results.

It's like he's peeking at my notes.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

It's like he's peeking at my notes.

That was probably evil Kamikaze.

 

[MichaelSomething]

A core game with simple rules and then extra packs with optional rules, monsters, classes, spells, and so on, each to cater to a different flavor.

Not hard to do, and it'd be a great unification product that would be a great way to drive product -- Ravenloft would not only be a campaign setting, but it'd have a ton of new monsters, maybe rules for playing as certain types, and rules for horror, madness and ritual magic. The Dark Sun line would be the home of the psionics rules, which could be used anywhere, but which they'd hope would entice you into picking up other Dark Sun products after grabbing the psionics book.

I'd add to the traditional settings a kid-friendly fairy tale/Oz/Narnia inspired book (because D&D needs official rules for player character talking animals, damn it), a steampunk/Victorian magic Falkenstein clone, a modern urban fantasy and maybe a Harry Potter-flavored modern magic high fantasy.

Everyone works off the same D20-but-not core, and bolts on the options they want. Or, if they want to make WotC really happy, buy it all and mix and match the rules, monsters, spells and so on.

Doesn't GURPS do that already?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Doesn't GURPS do that already?

And the nWoD and Savage Worlds and lots more besides.

 

[Anselyn]

We are starting to hit an era of design where you can use something without understanding it, and it will just work.

I like your analogy too. There is also an interesting discussion going on here on simple/basic/transparent/mature design etc.

But, but ...

If you sit down with a new player - those people we want more of rather than just us long time players - then if you tell then you have a Strength listed here for your character then the functionality of that strength has to chime with the normal understanding of being strong.

It may be a more mature/sophisticated design to have a game where you have a TLA[1] of +15 related to a whole gamut of strength related activities - but that is also a exclusionary wall for getting new players to play.

[1] Three Letter Acronym - may or may nor be STR - could be BAB ...

 

[MoxieFu]

STR is not a TLA, it is an abbreviation.

 

[Viking Bastard]

Scope of abilities/skills/powers etc. (There may be more, but scope is definitely an issue to solve.)

For sake of argument, in the simple version, say that Cha covers all the social skills, Dex covers all the sneaking and lockpicking, etc. (I know there are holes there. Work with me, and assume they are handled well enough. ).

Then you layer the skills on top of this as an option.

I can see where you're going with this, but this is way more ambitious than what I was thinking about. I was thinking something more along the way of Essentials, just taken to an extreme. I was thinking if you didn't want to use skills, you could pick a Basic class like Fighting Man or Magic-User that doesn't get skills and uses abilities for everything, but has it's own math to compensate.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I have argued elsewhere on similar threads to this one that I do not believe a 5th edition is on the way. Mostly related to the state of the digital tools and the split in the fanbase that such a move would create.

On the other hand, I could see these columns leading to the introduction of a true Basic D&D. One that is a subset of 4e and balanced with the math of 4e.

How about htis scenario, a boxed set expansion for the boardgames (Ravenloft and Wrath of Ashardalon) allowing simple chargen and task resolution using abilities and adding non dungeon encounters. Still DM'less but with the ability to score allies and/or helpful items. The game will culminate with a dungeon crawl.

The rules point you to Basic D&D for further open ended adventure.

Basic D&D - Simple essential styled characters level 1 to 10
Spell casters have a pretty restricted list of powers. No skills, or feats. Non combat task resolution via attribute checks. Can use the reqular 4e monsters and monster vault.

DM advice and encounter and adventure advice.

Basic D&D paragon tier introduces paragon paths and feats, however, no multiclassing or hybrids. Want that go to AD&D (formerly known as 4e)