Mearls on Controller design and At-Will balance

[Lizard]

The wizard in our 4e game is stunningly ineffectual. I think the "Nerf wizards!" meme went way too far. We have a melee-heavy party (rogue, ranger, paladin, wizard, bard) and we are in an urban campaign, which means a lot of tight alleys, small rooms, and interior spaces. Slowing enemies doesn't work because the melee is rushing into range with them. Hindering terrain screws us up at well. Area spells catch us in the bargain. So, pretty much, he's limited to magic missile, or "Magic Missing", as it has become known.

Definitely needs a buff.

I think it's interesting that the "Controller" in 4e is supposed to be what most would call a Debuffer in an MMORPG. This is a very useful role in a group (my ranger Daily which weakens a foe is extremely effective), but the wizard, currently, doesn't cut it. Since they seem to know this, it will be interesting to see if it's "fixed" in Arcane Power. (Is that before or after PHB2?)

 

[Evilhalfling]

I don't particually like vanguards lighting. Fire seed has plus and minuses to scorching burst, as the power has to be centered on a target, this has a lot less flexability in targeting than Scorching burst. The abilty to hit a bunch of minions, or to inflict a resonable damage on a group does not need any more bells and whistles.

Magic missle (with the bracers of perfect shot) and Scorching burst were favored in my game. Cloud of daggers was talked about as the best at will, because you can continually push monster back into it. In practice why bother? Push powers are better held for pushing people into lingering dalies, avoiding swarm aura's or exploiting terrain.

The at-will that really lags is ray of frost. Slow is nearly useless, and its poor damage. the twin element feats are hard to use as the twin 13 requirement is counter productive to the SAD wizard.

Not every power needs an upgrade.

 

[Mr. Teapot]

Our resident wizard found that Magic Missile was kind of bland. However, coupled with its master's wand (push 1 on a hit), he suddenly felt a lot better about it...

If people wanted to boost the power and controller-ness of wizard at-wills, they could do a lot worse than just giving the wizard the benefits of Master's Wands automatically. So any wizard using Magic Missile gets to push 1, regardless of implement.



And it took Mearls this long to realize that the Controller was the anti-Leader role? I've known that since before Races and Classes was published. (You can see a similar dichotomy between Strikers and Defenders.)

 

[Danzauker]

The wizard in our 4e game is stunningly ineffectual. I think the "Nerf wizards!" meme went way too far. We have a melee-heavy party (rogue, ranger, paladin, wizard, bard) and we are in an urban campaign, which means a lot of tight alleys, small rooms, and interior spaces.

Playing a 4e wizard in this kind of setting is like playing a 3e mounted paladin on a barge.

Wrong character in wrong place.

 

[Obryn]

Since they seem to know this, it will be interesting to see if it's "fixed" in Arcane Power. (Is that before or after PHB2?)

It's gotta be after.

I think they're waiting until they have 4 classes in a single power source before they release "X Power." So, we get Martial Power now because there were 4 Martial characters in the PHB.

Arcane Power will have Wizards (PHB), Swordmages (FRPG), Bards (PHB2), and ... Sorceror, I want to say? (PHB2) So, we need those last 2 classes before we get the Power book.

I think PHB2 will also clear the way for the Divine Power book.

-O

 

[keterys]

One thing that's important to realize is that the wizard barely has controller class features. From a balance perspective, his spellbook and cantrips are practically flavor. Other than orb broken-ness, his implement mastery is also almost a non-issue (and often not to do with actually controlling)

It's almost all about the at-wills. If controllers are defined by at-wills then their at-wills need to be better than other people's (and not 'more damage than twin strike' but actually controlling would be good). Vanguard Strike and Chill Wind are examples of interesting controller at-wills. Magic Missile is not. Magic Missile with push 1? Absolutely.

 

[keterys]

PHB2 is ~March, Arcane Power is ~April. It has 5 classes - bard, sorcerer, warlock, wizard, swordmage.

 

[Dinkeldog]

My view is that the role of controllers should be area (mobility) denial and imposing conditions on the opponents. I don't want my wizard to fill the same damage-dealing role that my party's rogue and warlock fill. I want to limit what the enemy does and allow the strikers to be more effective in their role. Icy Terrain is great for my 2nd level wizard because I can knock things prone and let the rogue go nuts.

 

[Milambus]

PHB2 is ~March, Arcane Power is ~April. It has 5 classes - bard, sorcerer, warlock, wizard, swordmage.

PHB2 is March 17th
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Players-Handbook-Core-Rulebook-Bk-2/dp/0786950161/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1229450300&sr=8-2]Amazon.com: Player's Handbook 2: A 4th Edition D&D Core Rulebook (Bk.2): Wizards RPG Team: Books[/ame]

Arcane Power is April 21st
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Arcane-Power-4th-D-Supplement/dp/0786949570/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1229450300&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Arcane Power: A 4th Edition D&D Supplement: Logan Bonner, Eytan Bernstein, Peter Lee: Books[/ame]

Divine Power is July 21st
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Divine-Power-4th-D-Supplement/dp/0786949821/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1229450300&sr=8-3]Amazon.com: Divine Power: A 4th Edition D&D Supplement: Wizards RPG Team: Books[/ame]

 

[brehobit]

4e fans on the internet undervalue area attacks.

Let me clarify. When designing powers, adding something to an attack (say slow) means you will have it deal less damage to keep it balanced. The bigger the bonus the more the damage is cut or level raised.

4e doesn't cut damage enough for area attacks. So in general area attacks are some of the best powers in the game IMO. Certainly hitting one person for 2X damage is generally better than hitting 2 people for X damage. But it seems with area attacks (especially those that don't hurt allies) the debate is 1.1X against 1 person or X vs. 4. It's an easy call 90% of the time. The other 10% is when you really need to kill _that_ baddy or you have a solo.

So I agree, the internet fans undervalue area attacks, but so did the designers.