Mearls on Controller design and At-Will balance

[Phaezen]

Slightly out of left field here,

I was rereading the Gladiator article, specifically the Arena Fighting Feats (Marital class feats which modify specific at wills). Surely it would be possible to write up a series of "Guild Trained" feats which modify Wizard at wills to give them a bit more of a controller aspect?

I am going to give this a bit more thought for some ideas, but here is a start:

Golden Wyvern Initiate [Guild Trained]
Prerequisite: Wis 13, Wizard
You may choose to exclude your allies from your ranged burst atwill powers.

Phaezen

 

[Ahglock]

That being said, I'd prefer orb wizards to have a flat -1 to all saves in place of an occasional overpowering - WIS.

While I think it should be a flat amount to avoid certain absurd builds, -1 seems weak when a feat can give -2. A class ability should at least equal to a feat, in fact it should be feat+. I really don't know what the orb wizard should get, if it stacks with the feat it can quickly get nasty. Heck maybe they get the feat for free even if they don't have the Chr for it and its provides -3 instead of -2.

 

[DracoSuave]

But a class feature giving -1 to saves doesn't address the -only- stated problem with the wizard class, which is the at-wills not controlling enough.

If it does, could you please explain it?

 

[Oldtimer]

Wizards don't get wisdom?

Oh wait. They do.

Move along.

Huh? Of course they "get wisdom". Everybody gets wisdom. But not automatically a good score in it.

I don't really understand what you're saying. What was wrong with me correcting the original statement?

 

[Ahglock]

But a class feature giving -1 to saves doesn't address the -only- stated problem with the wizard class, which is the at-wills not controlling enough.

If it does, could you please explain it?

Its the only stated problem from the designer. Others seem to think there are other porblems, like there is no decent core controller feature in the class abilities.

 

[DracoSuave]

Yeah, but that 'problem' doesn't make them less effective at dealing their role, which is to control. In terms of their role, they do a half-decent job of it, but they'd do a better job with a few more controlling at-wills to choose from. A class feature doesn't address that problem, and addressing that problem will establish the wizard as a solid controller.

I mean this is the same community that once thought thunderwave was weak, enfeebling strike was terrible, that wizards can't deal AoE damage, and that staff of defense was a terrible implement. I don't consider this community a good authority on what is best for class design compared to a designer who has been playing and tweaking the game for a lot longer.

 

[Nail]

Its the only stated problem from the designer.

Consider, from the designer's standpoint, how you might address the problem that "wizards aren't controller-y enough".

• You could add a class feature: IMO, this is best but it would require publishing new "builds" of the wizard that make the old builds weak (like the battlerager fighter),
• You could add new At-Wills: this seems weaker to me, but it does have the advantage of being accessible by any wizard build, using the existing retraining rules.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

While I think it should be a flat amount to avoid certain absurd builds, -1 seems weak when a feat can give -2. A class ability should at least equal to a feat, in fact it should be feat+. I really don't know what the orb wizard should get, if it stacks with the feat it can quickly get nasty. Heck maybe they get the feat for free even if they don't have the Chr for it and its provides -3 instead of -2.

Well, it's a lot stronger than any heroic tier feat the wizard has access to. It's not as good as a paragon level feat, but by then I think you'll find feats are much stronger.

What I'm thinking is maybe having the orb wizard getting -1 to all save (stacks with the feat) plus, once per encounter, they can slide an enemy suffering from a condition inflicted by a power a number of square equal to their WIS bonus. That's pretty sweet for setting up better AoE.

But a class feature giving -1 to saves doesn't address the -only- stated problem with the wizard class, which is the at-wills not controlling enough.

If it does, could you please explain it?

Oh, it doesn't. It was just an aside brought on by the post I was quoting.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Slightly out of left field here,

I was rereading the Gladiator article, specifically the Arena Fighting Feats (Marital class feats which modify specific at wills). Surely it would be possible to write up a series of "Guild Trained" feats which modify Wizard at wills to give them a bit more of a controller aspect?

I am going to give this a bit more thought for some ideas, but here is a start:

Golden Wyvern Initiate [Guild Trained]
Prerequisite: Wis 13, Wizard
You may choose to exclude your allies from your ranged burst atwill powers.

Phaezen

Don't you think it treads on the toes of an epic feat?

Spell Accuracy [Wizard]
Prerequisite: Wizard
Benefit: You can omit a number of squares from the area of effect of any of your area or close wizard powers. This number can’t exceed your Wisdom modifier.

(and ranged burst at-wills basically just means Scorching Burst, which is a bit specific for a feat, surely?)

Cheers

 

[Phaezen]

Don't you think it treads on the toes of an epic feat?

Spell Accuracy [Wizard]
Prerequisite: Wizard
Benefit: You can omit a number of squares from the area of effect of any of your area or close wizard powers. This number can’t exceed your Wisdom modifier.

(and ranged burst at-wills basically just means Scorching Burst, which is a bit specific for a feat, surely?)

Cheers

Both valid critisms as I said it is an idea I am playing with to see how it works.

The Arena Fighting feats I am basing this off each modify one at-will from 3 or 4 martial classes so mechanically they each modify one at-will for the character, half-elf dilettante notwithstanding.

Just trying to brainstorm a way to give wizards more controller options with thier at-wills without changing core.

Phaezen