Mearls redesigns the Ogre Mage

[kigmatzomat]

I would like to point out that Ogre Magi do not need to be leaders of ogres to be great bandits. You have a creature who can invisibly fly into a village, shapeshift into a particular person, walk in the front door, knock out everyone there, and fly away with the loot. if someone does happen to resist, the OM can escape via SLA, gaseous form, nuking everyone with CoC or just smashing them flat.

Back to the topic at hand:

Let's try a different approach. What if we made OM a template on Ogre? I would say that regen, flight, SLAs, and the stat boosts are worth a +3 CR. Vampire is in some ways more powerful (+2 CR) but it has distinct weaknesses.

So a CR3 ogre +3 CR template = CR6. Hmmm, to make it CR8 we could either add more complicated stuff or just add more racial HD. For giants +2CR is an extra 8HD. Hey, that means we've got a 12HD ogre mage with enough hit points to survive a few rounds face-to-face with a fighter, a decent BAB to return damage, improved saves, twice as many skill points (maybe add disguise, bluff, diplomacy?), and 3 more feats.

I think this guy is meaty enough to handle sub-optimal combat SLAs (and darkness at will is handy thing when cast on numerous pebbles dropped from high altitude) and that high-powered Cone of Cold turns into a weapon OMs can use around each other without risking instant death if it punches through SR.

 

[painandgreed]

While I agree with Mearls basic point that the Ogre Magi could be revamped, I disagree with what he did. He essentially created a brand new monster and gave it an old grognard name like he did with the rust monster. I say leave it mostly the way it was and change out Charm Person for Charm Monster (at will) or Mass Charm Monster (once per day) and throw in a Suggestion (once per day) and call it good. Then you have a monster that can effectivly stop the party without actually harming them, unless they quickly take advantage of his glass jaw.

 

[Mad Mac]

I disagree. I want an Oni inspired Ogre Mage to be able to kick some arse in melee. I also want it to have a decent selection of magical powers. For that reason, I mostly aprove of Mearls redesign, although I personally would have added a bit more magic. I can see why he didn't, since it's already a high CR 5 and he wanted to keep it reasonably close to Ogres, but I would have added a bit more, even so.

 

[Klaus]

I disagree. I want an Oni inspired Ogre Mage to be able to kick some arse in melee. I also want it to have a decent selection of magical powers. For that reason, I mostly aprove of Mearls redesign, although I personally would have added a bit more magic. I can see why he didn't, since it's already a high CR 5 and he wanted to keep it reasonably close to Ogres, but I would have added a bit more, even so.

Since the MM-described critters are the weakest examples of their kinds, the new Ogre Mage seems fine. It's far easier to add stuff (by applying class levels or HD to it) than to take stuff away.

 

[The Shaman]

While I agree with Mearls basic point that the Ogre Magi could be revamped, I disagree with what he did. He essentially created a brand new monster and gave it an old grognard name like he did with the rust monster. I say leave it mostly the way it was and change out Charm Person for Charm Monster (at will) or Mass Charm Monster (once per day) and throw in a Suggestion (once per day) and call it good. Then you have a monster that can effectivly stop the party without actually harming them, unless they quickly take advantage of his glass jaw.

I agree - that's much closer to the flavor of the original.

Here's a question: Several posters have said that if they want an "ogre mage," they could just add sorceror levels to an ogre. If you want a butt-kicking ogre mage, why not just add samurai or monk levels to an ogre mage?

 

[Glyfair]

Then you have a monster that can effectivly stop the party without actually harming them, unless they quickly take advantage of his glass jaw.

I agree - that's much closer to the flavor of the original.

I'm not so sure. "more powerful than it's occidental cousin" doesn't sound like it should have a glass jaw the ogre doesn't.

 

[The Shaman]

I'm not so sure. "more powerful than it's occidental cousin" doesn't sound like it should have a glass jaw the ogre doesn't.

Mo' magic, mo' power.

At least that's how I interpret it. Power doesn't necessarily mean "bigger sword."

 

[Knight Otu]

Several posters have said that if they want an "ogre mage," they could just add sorceror levels to an ogre.

I think they'd be disappointed, with the distinct lack of Charisma the ogre has.

If you want a butt-kicking ogre mage, why not just add samurai or monk levels to an ogre mage?

Similarly, the old ogre mage was over-CR'd for its Hit Dice. That wouldn't change when adding class levels that add +1 CR for +1 HD. It would still have the 'glass jaw' unless it uses a significant amount of wealth to mitigate it.

 

[Knight Otu]

Mo' magic, mo' power.

At least that's how I interpret it. Power doesn't necessarily mean "bigger sword."

That wasn't the question, though. Not having a bigger sword doesn't equate having a glass jaw. In fact a creature can have both a big sword, and a glass jaw.

Ironically, that is pretty much the ogre mage's problem. It's big sword just happens to be its magic abilities.

 

[Glyfair]

Mo' magic, mo' power.

At least that's how I interpret it. Power doesn't necessarily mean "bigger sword."

True, but I don't think it means "really sneaky and manipulative with a glass jaw" either.