Mearls says adventures are hard to sell [merged]

[Sammael]

I've read author's posts regarding the three mega-adventure books (Cormyr, Shadowdale, Anauroch), and they were trying to emphasize that the three are not sourcebooks and have the bare minimum amount of descriptive text simply to enable the DMs to get a feel for the region. So, that argument doesn't hold. Even if it did, it's practically impossible to pack a semi-decent adventure and semi-decent FR regional book into 160 pages, so both would suffer. 160 pages is simply not enough.

Contrary to (obviously) popular belief, most of FR has not been covered by regional supplements in 3.x. Heck, two of the most popular regions, Western Heartlands and Dalelands, haven't had a sourcebook devoted to them in 15 years or so.

 

[kenobi65]

The issue seems to be that, compared to supplements, the conventional wisdom has been that adventures/modules aren't as profitable. The ideas that feed into this:

1) Whereas multiple members of a gaming group might buy a book of supplemental rules, only the DM is likely to buy an adventure.
2) Many DMs hate pre-written adventures and don't buy them at all.
3) I seem to remember reading someone associated with WotC once note that, page for page, adventures are more expensive to create than rules supplements.

1 + 2 mean that the audience is limited, and 3 (if I'm remembering it correctly) means that you won't make as much money on the ones you do sell.

As Henry's already noted, with 3E, WotC was hoping that the OGL would encourage other publishers to step into the role of publishing adventures...and, for a while, they did. When a lot of them pulled out of that market, WotC realized that *someone* needed to step in and provide those adventures.

But, note that the kinds of adventures that they're providing aren't just "a 16-page module", like in the old days. It seems like they're trying different approaches:
- The Fantastic Locations adventures are clearly cross-marketing with DDM
- Some of the adventures are "mega-adventures" (like Red Hand of Doom)
- Some, like the FR ones, are adventures bundled with rules content

 

[Sammael]

Perhaps gamers are almost full on the plump tenderloin of rules supplements, and are now looking for the sweet nectar of adventures for dessert.

(1) Adventures sell only to GMs (or players who buy them to their GMs to run, but that's pretty much the same). There goes 75% of the market.

(2) A lot of GMs (myself included) do not run pre-made adventures. I'll be conservative and say that number is roughly 30%, although I have no proof for that. At any rate, there goes another part of the market.

(3) Adventures, unlike accessories, can be used pretty much only once by one group of people. Thus, a lot of people buy adventures and then re-sell them on the secondary market. Secondary market hurts the original publisher, and there are people who only buy second-hand adventures. There goes ANOTHER part of the market.

(4) There are several 3rd party companies with a very good track record when it comes to adventures. WotC, on the other hand, hasn't published a single well-recognized adventure since City of the Spider Queen (and it's arguable how recognizable that one is to non-FR fans). I read CotSQ, BTW, and it's one of the worst adventure designs I've ever seen. I'd like to think that at least some people don't buy stuff blindly but base their purchases on analysis of things like, yes, track record. Another slice of market share is gone.

(5) For the price of a single WotC adventure, you can buy 3-4 Dungeon magazines with 3 adventures per issue. For people looking at a cost/benefit ratio, buying published adventures instead of Dungeon is simply irrational. What does that translate to? Yes, more lost sales.

In the end, I really don't know who the target audience for WotC adventures is, other than obsessive collectors of all things D&D or people who only buy "official" products.

 

[Glyfair]

As Henry's already noted, with 3E, WotC was hoping that the OGL would encourage other publishers to step into the role of publishing adventures...and, for a while, they did. When a lot of them pulled out of that market, WotC realized that *someone* needed to step in and provide those adventures.

Right. The conventional wisdom is that adventures are rarely big sellers (there are exceptions). However, it's also recognized that they are an important part of the RPG product field and the industry notices their absence.

 

[Sammael]

- The Fantastic Locations adventures are clearly cross-marketing with DDM

It was said at D&D Experience 07 that the Fantastic Locations line is a failure. Its primary purchasers were Skirmish players, and Skirmish is not all that popular. As for the others... let's say that pretty maps can be printed out for less, the "adventures" were ridiculous, and featured encounters with excessive amounts of creatures available only as horribly expensive D&D minis from early sets. Someone once calculated that purchasing all minis needed for Hellspike Prison would cost something like $300, I kid you not.

 

[Abisashi]

The target is probably the majority of DMs. I'm guessing that the percentage of ENWorld DMs who don't use pre-made adventures is much higher than for the general populace.

(4) There are several 3rd party companies with a very good track record when it comes to adventures. WotC, on the other hand, hasn't published a single well-recognized adventure since City of the Spider Queen (and it's arguable how recognizable that one is to non-FR fans). I read CotSQ, BTW, and it's one of the worst adventure designs I've ever seen. I'd like to think that at least some people don't buy stuff blindly but base their purchases on analysis of things like, yes, track record. Another slice of market share is gone.

What about Red Hand of Doom? That seems more recognizable to me than CotSQ, but maybe it's just because RHoD is new.

 

[Darklone]

Adventures are hard to sell, that's been mentioned by guys in the industry since years. Nearly everyone in a group buys corerulebooks, but only one buys adventures.

 

[Shroomy]

There are several 3rd party companies with a very good track record when it comes to adventures. WotC, on the other hand, hasn't published a single well-recognized adventure since City of the Spider Queen (and it's arguable how recognizable that one is to non-FR fans). I read CotSQ, BTW, and it's one of the worst adventure designs I've ever seen. I'd like to think that at least some people don't buy stuff blindly but base their purchases on analysis of things like, yes, track record. Another slice of market share is gone.

Um, The Red Hand of Doom?

 

[Henry]

[Aside]
While you did include the (strange!) qualifier of "Mainland"

Not that strange, given that years ago a WotC representative (Ryan Dancey? Charles Ryan? both gone now) said that WotC's main focus was only on the region from the sword coast to Thay, and only as far sound at Lurien or Mulhorand, because only stuff in these regions sold well, the rest (Maztica, Karatur, a lot of the lesser lands like Lantan, etc.) did not show well in sales in TSR's years with the line.

...good information is still missing on: Lantan, Nimbral (though WotC's website has a good start), the other island kingdoms (Mintarn, Orlumbor, etc), and Sossal. One could also include the Moonshaes, as FR2 was very deficient (other than the great map).

All these are likely considered by WotC to not be "Mainland" regions, and hence why I suggest they probably haven't been covered yet. Moonshae Isles I could certainly see, as that's one of the regions that TSR got the most play from in Faerun's early days, and I would guess still generates a bit of interest. The rest, however, I have to wonder if they really would bring in enough revenue to hazard a revisit, because the only way I even remember half of them is through references in old Forgotten Realms Comic books...

 

[Sammael]

What about Red Hand of Doom? That seems more recognizable to me than CotSQ, but maybe it's just because RHoD is new.

RHoD is new and was published after a long draught. I managed to suppress my own disgust with spawn of Tiamat enough to read through it in a store, and it read like a stereotypical hack'n'slash-fest with some Heroes of Battle war-encounter-type stuff added for good measure. Not bad (as far as pre-made adventures go), but not something I expect to be remembered 10 years from now, either.