Mechanic-Nerfed Cloak of Elvenkind (etc.)

[KarinsDad]

My problem with the 3.0 skill boosting items was their cheapening of skill points. Your proposed "Cloak of Elvenkind" is good, in that it does cost a packet and yet remains a highly prized item. The cheapness of skill boosting items in 3.0 meant that one of the major advantages of being a rogue was simply replaced with a little cash expenditure.

That can still happen in 3.5. It's called a Chime of Opening.


Actually, if designing that cloak for the game though, I would make it +20 instead of +19 for ease of use. The craft cost would then go to 44K, the market value to 88K.

But at 88K, it's extremely pricey. It's still much cheaper to buy a Ring of Invisibility, even though See Invisibility will overcome it. True Seeing will overcome both items (most of the time) since Blur is overcome by True Seeing and True Seeing gives Darkvision, hence, no hide unless you have normal cover/concealment, but not concealment due to darkness or shadows.

 

[Belbarrus]

In 1st Edition, the Cloak of Elvenkind was a way of giving non-stealth classes a way to hide. The cloak had its own set of rules so that a thief, for example, would use their own skill OR the cloak, whichever was better. But, in 3.0 edition, the cloak was still good for non-stealth types to get a chance at hiding (+10 to hide), but then stealth types could use the item to *boost* their skills and get really good at hiding. So, the bonus was reduced to +5. That's how it seems to me anyway.

The only way to balance it would be to make Cloak of Elvenkind an item with its own rules again, rather than something that just boosts a skill.


B

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Now the first thing to remember is, that in 1e, no one but the Thief had any skills, thus, there were no "Skill Toes" to be stepped on! No one cared if a Cloak gave you a 95% chance of being "invisible", under certain conditions, as there was NO other way to do it, besides magic!

This reasoning is entirely illogical. The item doesn't step on anyone's toes except the Thief, so it doesn't step on anyone's toes? Didn't you just say the Thief had skills? Hide in Shadows most certainly did work with similar effectiveness under certain circumstances.

I agree that the 3.x cloak is not an accurate rendition of the Cloak of Elvenkind as depicted in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. So what?

In 3.x, a Potion (or Scroll) of Invisibility is a cheap enough item that any midlevel character could be expected to buy one for any urgent stealth mission. The 3.x CoEK is still very useful for outdoor situations in the spirit of the original. Moderate bonuses to Hide can make a big difference when the encounter distances are large.

 

[Storminator]

I played in a game with an arcane trickster with Craft Wondrous Item. He had skill boost item for every single important thief skill. It was so ridiculously cheap to get a +10 to ALL his skills (1000 gp per skill, and a little less than a levels worth of XP), that he made one of everything. Need a Scrying mirror? Make a +10 one! Need to Spot? Lenses. Hide? Cloak. Jump? Ring (and it's +30). Appraise? Bluff? Open Locks? Disable Device? Search? Move Silent?

He had everything. It was absurd. So everything is now more money for less oomph... thank god.

PS

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

A Ring of Invisibility costs 50% more than you expect from the pricing formula - so a Cloak of Invisibility should cost 18,000 gp right there. At least. Most DMs will make it cost more, based on it's effects.

Second, a Ring of Invisibility (30,000 gp) isn't that great. It's command-word activated, you must clearly state the word every 3 minutes. It's hard to sneak around when you have to keep chirping, right? See how a Cloak of Invisibility is a lot better? It should cost a lot more.

As for the limits on skills ... good. It gives the rogue a reason to take levels. You're not going to be the best at stealth at 5th-level, after all, but you get better at it when you keep trying to sneak past more and more observant creatures.

 

[likuidice]

the cloak of elvenkind reminds me of the scene in the two towers, where frodo and sam conceal themselves, using the cloak to simulate a rock.

perhaps you could give the cloak of elvenkind the rangers "camouflage" ability, or a variation of "hide in plain sight"? this way its an item thats tied to the users hiding ability, rather than granting bonuses to an existing skill.

 

[Altalazar]

It does seem like what they did to the cloak of elvenkind makes little sense.

As far as limiting spells to +3 +1/caster level, I see no reason why you should need to do that - for one thing, spells have limited duration - while a skill character can do his skills all day, thousands of times. A spell user also has to use up a spell slot, preventing them from using some other spell. A skill user sacrifices nothing to use a skill.

Magic items are a little different, in that they give permanent boosts, but I still see no problem with this. Things like rings you can only wear two of, cloaks only one, etc. It is still a case of some limits on how much enhancement you can get. But - more to the point - there is nothing stopping the high-skill person from also getting such items, making them just that much more skilled - someone who specializes in hiding and sneaking and jumping with a ring of jumping and a cloak of hiding is going to be orders of magnitude better than anyone else, spells and items notwithstanding. And hey, the mage could cast one of those skill enhancers on the guy too, giving him almost god-like skill for a time. Then it is time to start dancing on pins...

 

[Grayhawk]

the cloak of elvenkind reminds me of the scene in the two towers, where frodo and sam conceal themselves, using the cloak to simulate a rock.

perhaps you could give the cloak of elvenkind the rangers "camouflage" ability, or a variation of "hide in plain sight"? this way its an item thats tied to the users hiding ability, rather than granting bonuses to an existing skill.

I think that that's a great idea.

(Obviously, it cheapens the ranger's special abilities, but as my ranger doesn't get these I'm perfectly fine with that.)

If you still want it to make you better at hiding (especially while concealed), you might do the following:

Cloak of Elvenkind

This item lets you hide w/o concealment.
It grants the following hide bonusses:

When concealed +20
In natural surroundings w/o concealment +15
Non natural surroundings w/o concealment +10

These bonusses does not stack with any other hide bonusses - you use the cloak's or your own bonus, whichever is higher. If you make any sudden moves - like attacking or moving more than half your speed - you lose the bonusses until remaining still for 1 round.

Of course, whther or not you would be interested in something like this depends on your whole view of magic items: Should they be allowed to make someone with no training better than someone with a lot of training, or is it more *fair* to merely let them grant a skill bonus.

 

[Ferret]

Why not let them gain extra concealment when in forest concealment? Like plus one stage to concealment?