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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 8011362" data-attributes="member: 1465">I think this was a good approach.I don't play WOIN or know much about its rules, but if I may chime in for a comment, I have encountered the situation in the past in various editions of D&amp;D, and I generally tell the players to simply setup an ambush and use non-lethal damage. 5e rules are even simpler than previous editions for this scenario: the DM calls for example for a Stealth vs passive Perception check to essentially get a surprise round with the unseen condition (surprise round means you certainly get to use Attack before the target does, unseen means you have advantage) and if you drop the target to 0hp you can choose to make it unconscious instead of dying, no penalties.Now, the usual criticism is &quot;but I will never drop it to 0hp in one blow&quot;. Here is the crucial point: as a DM you should only make this tactic easy on targets that are, in fact, already killable in one blow*.Think about it: this tactic is a &quot;common genre motif&quot; only when the target is in fact unimportant (or viceversa, when the target is actually the protagonist, when the story demands it should be captured but cannot be killed). You never see the protagonists sap the BBEG in a movie unless the movie specifically wants to deliver a morale that evil is not absolute i.e. the BBEG can be redeemed, or there is a chance for justice to take care of the BBEG (e.g. arrest him). Introducing a rule which allows a PC party to easily sap an NPC of their same level is dangerous, because they might start to use it for bypassing climatic battles instead of fighting, by constantly using sapping + coupdegrace. In 5e even the Assassin's Assassinate ability only takes you one step forward, but I don't think it makes it too easy to kill an equal NPC on a regular basis, maybe at the lower levels.*apart from the fact that you might actually get 2 or even more blows before they can react</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 8011362, member: 1465"] I think this was a good approach. I don't play WOIN or know much about its rules, but if I may chime in for a comment, I have encountered the situation in the past in various editions of D&D, and I generally tell the players to simply setup an ambush and use non-lethal damage. 5e rules are even simpler than previous editions for this scenario: the DM calls for example for a Stealth vs passive Perception check to essentially get a surprise round with the unseen condition (surprise round means you certainly get to use Attack before the target does, unseen means you have advantage) and if you drop the target to 0hp you can choose to make it unconscious instead of dying, no penalties. Now, the usual criticism is "but I will never drop it to 0hp in one blow". Here is the crucial point: as a DM [I]you should only make this tactic easy on targets that are, in fact, already killable in one blow*[/I]. Think about it: this tactic is a "common genre motif" [I]only [/I]when the target is in fact unimportant (or viceversa, when the target is actually the [I]protagonist, [/I]when the story demands it should be captured but cannot be killed). You [I]never[/I] see the protagonists sap the BBEG in a movie unless the movie specifically wants to deliver a morale that evil is not absolute i.e. the BBEG can be redeemed, or there is a chance for justice to take care of the BBEG (e.g. arrest him). Introducing a rule which allows a PC party to easily sap an NPC of their same level is dangerous, because they might start to use it for bypassing climatic battles instead of fighting, by constantly using sapping + coupdegrace. In 5e even the Assassin's Assassinate ability only takes you one step forward, but I don't think it makes it too easy to kill an equal NPC on a regular basis, maybe at the lower levels. *apart from the fact that you might actually get 2 or even more blows before they can react [/QUOTE]

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