[MEG - PR] Artificer's Handbook - sample magic item

[der_kluge]

Absolutely, Ascending Crane. This is addressed in the very first section. Basically, if a GM allows a player to do that, it's his own fault. Magic items require components. Unless that wizard is sitting in a warehouse of magic item components, he can't do that.

A full 31 pages of the book are devoted to components. (25 if we end up removing one of the sections...)

If a player were to say that to me, I'd say, "Ok, do you have 3 masterwork longswords, several thousand gold worth of diamond dust, two digestive organs of a displacer beast, and the heart of a quickling?

No? Sorry...

Besides, there's absolutely nothing in the rules preventing you from being able to continue to implement the XP costs should you desire to.

 

[Ascending Crane]

Ok, I like that. Enforcing material components is cool, and can add a level of roleplaying.

DM: "The Giant Centipede is dead. As you --"

Mage Player: "Wait, I go over to the corpse. I seperate his head and remove the thorax with my dagger, sealing both pieces in one of my specimen jars. I also grab a handful of his legs, snapping them into smaller segments for ease of storage."

Other Players: "Ewwwww!"

 

[Khorod]

So the balance is gold and power components?

 

[der_kluge]

Khorad, yes. Mostly components, I don't much care for gold, because you still have to *spend* them on something. You can't just make a magic sword, pay 2,000 gold pieces to the magic item fairy, and walk away with your magic sword. That money has to go *somewhere*.

Requiring components for magic item creation, IMHO, is a perfectly suitable balancing factor for XP costs. XP cost is the lazy solution, IMHO.

We still do include rules for XP cost for certain specific items, such as making Tomes of Intellect, or Manuals of Gainful exercise. We recognized that wizards locking themselves in a tower, and making numerous books that provide permanent stat increases would be a major problem. So, those require (aside from having access to wish or miracle) XP costs.

edit: ...and you call yourself a writer. Pfeh!

 

[der_kluge]

Ascending Crane - exactly!

We have a section for monster byproducts, gems, herbs, and a few other oddities.

 

[Deadguy]

Ascending Crane - exactly!

We have a section for monster byproducts, gems, herbs, and a few other oddities.

I've played in a game like that, and one really annoying thing that cropped up was the way that every game session turned into a 'dismantle the monster' discussion or a 'find the strange herb/stone/slime/etc' exercise. It gets old very fast and really bogs down play. I hope that the book has some discussion for how to incorporate this approach smoothly into the game.

Strangely, the flip side also bothers me about this approach. It puts the whole process of item creation into the DM's hands. One thing I like about the current system is that once you 've correctly costed a magic item, a spellcaster who has invested in the right feats can make it. It's up to the PC to decide whether that use of resources is a good one, not whether the DM feels like giving them access to the components.

Sorry if this seems negative. I just like the way the current system works in principle (in practice I agree that there's still work to be done on getting the balance of the Item Creation Feats right). Still, I fully expect to buy the book just to rip off ideas for the peripheral aspects of item creation you mention!

 

[Damon Griffin]

Damon, certainly.

Now, this is going to look complicated,

No worries, I'm used to the Hero System/Champions.

To determine the cost, the equation is this:

ngp * (spell level * caster level -1) * (number of spell slots used)^2

The n for gold pieces is customizable. 5gp for low magic, 10gp for moderate (the default for all examples used), and 15gp for high magic settings. We'll use 10gp for this example.

Since 4th level spells have a caster level of 7, and we know the number of spell slots required, we can determine the cost.
10gp(4+7-1) * (5)^2
100gp *25 = 2,500
*it is at this point that die_kluge realizes that he has made a grevious error, and his math is wrong.*

Ok, I'm a moron, and can't add. Apparently, I'm *not* done with the book. The cost should be 2,500gp, not 1,920. The market value is 2 * creation cost, which should be 5,000.

Um, am I missing something here? If ...
ngp * (spell level * caster level -1) * (number of spell slots used)^2

...then, depending on which operation within the parentheses is carried out first, either:
10gp(4 * [7-1]) * (5)^2
240gp *25 = 6000

-or-

10gp([4 * 7] -1) * (5)^2
270gp *25 = 6750

...which would make the market value of the Bag of Roses either 12,000gp or 13,500gp. Yes?

Basically, the system works off spell slots. A certain number of spell slots are required based on the kind of item. There are numerous kinds of items, from wands, which are multi-charge items, to unlimited-use items (amulet of the planes) or bonus items (+1 swords, +4 cloak of charisma), to single-charge items (potions, scrolls).

The book breaks all these down into their base components, so that if you wanted to create an item that can cast mirror image 2 x per day, gives a +1 to your AC, and has 25 charges of blur, you could create it easily.

Sounds promising. I look forward to seeing the book.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Um, am I missing something here? If ...
ngp * (spell level * caster level -1) * (number of spell slots used)^2

...then, depending on which operation within the parentheses is carried out first, either:
10gp(4 * [7-1]) * (5)^2
240gp *25 = 6000

-or-

10gp([4 * 7] -1) * (5)^2
270gp *25 = 6750

He wrote

ngp * (spell level * caster level - 1) * (number of spell slots used)^2

but actually used

ngp * (spell level + caster level - 1) * (number of spell slots used)^2

in his calculation, it seems.

 

[Damon Griffin]

He wrote

ngp * (spell level * caster level - 1) * (number of spell slots used)^2

but actually used

ngp * (spell level + caster level - 1) * (number of spell slots used)^2

in his calculation, it seems.

Yep, I should have seen that. So, if only that one operator was mistyped (* instead of +), then the Bag of Roses would indeed cost 2500gp/5000gp, a much more reasonable price.

 

[der_kluge]

Um, am I missing something here? If ...
ngp * (spell level * caster level -1) * (number of spell slots used)^2

...then, depending on which operation within the parentheses is carried out first, either:
10gp(4 * [7-1]) * (5)^2
240gp *25 = 6000

Oops, I screwed up. Should be spell level + caster level, not times.

So, it's 10(4+7-1) *(25)=2500

Sorry for the mixup.