D&D General Melf's Guide to Greyhawk: The Shield Lands

[Maxperson]

I would totally understand Greyhawk as a campaign world going back to some older concepts, getting away from newer ideas like Goblins or Hobgoblins having fey associations.

I'd be a little surprised if they went with inherently/invariably evil orcs, but I'm interested to hear more.

Even in 1e Greyhawk didn't have inherently/invariably evil orcs. This is the population make-up of Greyhawk City and it's surrounding area per the 1e boxed set.

Population 58,000(city), 75,000+(including surrounding area)
Demi-humans: Some
Humanoids: Some

Some = 6%-10% of the population. So there are as many orcs, goblins, kobolds, etc. running around Greyhawk and it's surroundings as there are elves, dwarves, gnomes and halflings. If you go to the Greyhawk bazaar and see 100 people, 6-10 of them will be humanoids, 6-10 will be demi-humans, and the rest will be human.

If humanoids in the Greyhawk setting were inherently/invariably evil, you wouldn't see anywhere near that many running around.

Edit: Those percentages listed didn't even included the humanoid women, children or elderly. So the population percentages are even higher.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Conan also has a modern day Wolverine get sent back to Conan's time in a What If Marvel Comics story from the 80s. So eventually.

Conan has also been a member of the Avengers, because someone at Marvel has lost their damned mind.

 

[bedir than]

Conan has also been a member of the Avengers, because someone at Marvel has lost their damned mind.

Conan will return in Avengers: Doomsday

 

[Mannahnin]

Even in 1e Greyhawk didn't have inherently/invariably evil orcs. This is the population make-up of Greyhawk City and it's surrounding area per the 1e boxed set.

Population 58,000(city), 75,000+(including surrounding area)
Demi-humans: Some
Humanoids: Some

Some = 6%-10% of the population. So there are as many orcs, goblins, kobolds, etc. running around Greyhawk and it's surroundings as there are elves, dwarves, gnomes and halflings. If you go to the Greyhawk bazaar and see 100 people, 6-10 of them will be humanoids, 6-10 will be demi-humans, and the rest will be human.

If humanoids in the Greyhawk setting were inherently/invariably evil, you wouldn't see anywhere near that many running around.

Edit: Those percentages listed didn't even included the humanoid women, children or elderly. So the population percentages are even higher.

My impression from 1E-era TSR stuff is certainly that MOST Humanoids are evil, but that also doesn't mean they're all mindlessly rapacious.

Greyhawk, the greatest of the Free Cities, is Neutral in alignment, and the numbers of Humanoids and Demi-Humans being roughly balanced is I think meant to be indicative, that for the most part the city doesn't choose sides or play favorites beyond their self interest. Remember that "civilized" in the Flanaess also includes having thieves' guilds and assassins' guilds in nearly all the big cities. There are lots of evil and chaotic human beings, too.

If I were picturing a random market in Greyhawk I think the demographics would vary depending on which quarter of the city it's in, and what time of day or night. I think you do see Humanoids in the streets, but I'd think they're more concentrated in certain parts of the city, probably attend night markets more, etc.

 

[Voadam]

In addition to Conan, Red Sonja from his comic world has had a number of crossovers, including with Spider Man, Vampirella, Army of Darkness, and . . . Archie.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

In addition to Conan, Red Sonja from his comic world has had a number of crossovers, including with Spider Man, Vampirella, Army of Darkness, and . . . Archie.

Archie crossovers have tended to be of very high quality. (People really like the Punisher/Archie crossover.) For whatever reason, writers seem to bring their A-game when it comes to combining Riverdale with an established property.

 

[Dire Bare]

Conan will return in Avengers: Doomsday

Having Arnold reprise the role in the next Avengers movie would actually be pretty damn cool.

Conan, what is best in life?

To defeat Dr. Thulsa Doom with my new companions, the Avengers . . .

 

[bedir than]

Having Arnold reprise the role in the next Avengers movie would actually be pretty damn cool.

Conan, what is best in life?

To defeat Dr. Thulsa Doom with my new companions, the Avengers . . .

He is doing Conan again

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2479722/?ref_=nm_flmg_job_1_accord_1_unrel_cdt_t_4

 

[Maxperson]

My impression from 1E-era TSR stuff is certainly that MOST Humanoids are evil, but that also doesn't mean they're all mindlessly rapacious.

Greyhawk, the greatest of the Free Cities, is Neutral in alignment, and the numbers of Humanoids and Demi-Humans being roughly balanced is I think meant to be indicative, that for the most part the city doesn't choose sides or play favorites beyond their self interest. Remember that "civilized" in the Flanaess also includes having thieves' guilds and assassins' guilds in nearly all the big cities. There are lots of evil and chaotic human beings, too.

If I were picturing a random market in Greyhawk I think the demographics would vary depending on which quarter of the city it's in, and what time of day or night. I think you do see Humanoids in the streets, but I'd think they're more concentrated in certain parts of the city, probably attend night markets more, etc.

There's a huge number of them, though. Not just a few. I've been looking at how the 1e Greyhawk set calculates populations. The population listed is human only, and the humanoid and demi-human populations are based on that.

So Greyhawk city has 58,000 humans in it. Let's say the humanoid and demi-human populations of fighting males is 10%. The number of women, children and eldery would be at least twice that, so 30% which would be 17,400 humanoids and 17,400 demi-humans inside the city proper. That's 58,000 humans, and 34,800 non-humans. 37.5% of the population is non-human. 18.75% of the population would be humanoids.

That's a lot of evil beings to allow inside the city where it would be easy to rampage and cause a lot of death and destruction. It's far more likely that the vast majority of these particular humanoids are not evil. Not necessarily good, but not evil, either.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

That's a lot of evil beings to allow inside the city where it would be easy to rampage and cause a lot of death and destruction.

I don't think that evil, even in 1E, means "instantly begins rampaging and destroying things."

Remember, the Horned Society/Hierachs are evil as well, but they want to have a functioning government and society. Probably quite a few guildmasters across the Flanaess are evil, too, and not just the assassins and thieves.

Evil is selfish and doesn't care about anyone but themselves and their family and friends. That honestly fits well into a whole lot of societies, both fantasy and real, without much problem.