Mercenaries doing the work of the PCs?

[cptg1481]

Classic Insurgency

I love this question….

Basically, you are facing an insurgency. The monsters are the insurgents and the PC’s and their mercenaries are fighting a counter-insurgency operation. This is the most complicated and frustrating operation in warfare.

There are few if any examples of a successful counter-insurgency to reference. However, think Viet Nam, The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, El Salvador, Peru, etc. Large unit operations are largely unsuccessful for many reasons. They make a lot of noise, telegraph their movements by having large encampments, supply lines and simply opening themselves up to easy observation by insurgent forces. Company size operations will fail when looking for small groups, period. Enough said on that, I think I made the point. That should be enough of a reason to give your players. Let them figure out that they need to employ smaller sized specially trained units to track them down, attack with surprise, quickness and violence of action to successfully remove them.

You could have one of the mercenary commanders make these suggestions to them after a period of unsuccessful actions. He surely would be aware of these facts as a professional soldier.

On the positive side I do think that they would have some success against creatures that have a fixed base of operations, goblins, kobolds, orcs and other humanoids with villages lairs etc. However, the larger the group the more likely they are to have advanced warning, finding abandoned camps might be the norm. Eventually, the baddies will just leave the area rather than risk the confrontation with a larger better-trained force. Single monsters with a fixed lair and a lower intelligence would be easy targets, i.e. owlbears, bears, and other animal types. Special and intelligent monsters might stay and fight if they are especially powerful. This would be a conflict to save for the PC’s i.e., dragons, sphinxes, etc. Nymphs and fairies types might even be tempted to cooperate in exchange for amnesty, favors or cash. They could provide early warning and further intelligence gathering assets for the fortress. Likewise, any tribe group or family could also be tempted to do so if you follow the hearts and minds strategy. This could provide lots of role-playing interaction with unusual type characters. Remember that evil is not stupid, even orcs know when they are outgunned. Sure you may have rogue type incidents even after you make the deal but it is a lot better and cheaper to deal with the adolescent orcs who don’t accept the rule of the elders than to deal with an (relatively) organized orc tribe who feels their way of life is threatened. Any group will fight really hard for those reasons. Let them know you just want to live in peace and that they are free to live as they wish as long as they don’t raid your lands and you might even end up with an ally in times of war. For when your lands are threatened so ore theirs if they live there in relative balance.

Anyway, worse comes to worse, you can have the mercenaries deal with threats appropriate to their level and just give the PC’s some challenges appropriate to their level to deal with when you want to. That way your game stays in balance. The PC’s have to spend some $ on protection for the peasants through mercenary employment, payoffs etc, and they get to fight challenges that are appropriate.

Hope this helps….

CPTG

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Thanks for the input Olgar. In regards to feed, water, etc., the contract the PCs wrote out stipulated that the Red Ravens would take care of that. I guess I thought that the 200 gp per week to hire the Red Ravens also covered logistical costs.

Depsing on how well paid the mercenaries are, this might well not cover it. Figure a line soldier might want 1 gp a week, and you've got about 90 of those, plus about 10 sergeants, who are making double that, 5 file closers, making double that again, maybe three lieutenants, making 10 times the soldier salary, plus the captain, who'd probably make twice what his lieutenants do (do some research on how naval privateers divided their loot to give you an idea -- upwards of 50% of the loot could go to the captain). That totals 200 gp right there, and you haven't fed or watered the soldiers, provided ale rations (essential for morale), paid for armor, weapons, arrows, etc. Oh, yeah, and then there's fodder for the horses, which will cost more to transport to your location than it costs to buy. How many of their mercenaries are quartermasters and wagoneers? None, you say? Then they've got to pay more to have their supplies transported out, plus guards for the caravan, etc. You're probably not living off the land in the Stonelands.

So at 200gp a week, if it includes all the logistics, the troops are just barely getting paid (and if subsistence for a commoner is 1 sp a week, how much more do you need to pay a man to fight and die for his Cormyran Lion?). What that adds up to, to me, is that they really hired some pretty shoddy mercenaries. Good ones, with all the logistics included, might be worth 5 to 10 times the price.

At the pay rate they've offered, it might become clear that their mercs aren't particularly motivated to seek out danger (patrols are just going out a little ways, lying up for the day, then returning). Or perhaps they're suffering a high desertion rate. Not to mention, if they aren't treated well by their employers, there's always the temptation to rob the paymaster ... they may not be great warriors, but at 110 to 5, their odds are pretty good.

Medieval armies were expensive to raise and maintain, which is why they weren't particularly professional by today's standards -- the vast majority were peasants pressed into service for that season's campaigning. You could hires mercs to raise the standards of your army, but you might go broke paying for them.

Well, their strategy is basically having the Red Ravens begin to start a patrol around the PC stronghold enlarging their patrol area each time and dealing with any threats that occur or come up, I believe up to a 50-mile radius.

A company that size will vanish in a fifty-mile radius of land. During the Indian Wars, the US Army did a lot of troop patrolling and got led on a lot of wild goose chases across the west; even actions in regimental strength. And since I doubt the PCs are guarding the stronghold themselves, you're probably putting 1/3 of the force on patrol at a time at max (1/3 manning the stronghold, and 1/3 resting, refitting, and training). So a platoon-sized patrol of 30 men on horseback is out at a given time, in 7800 square miles of area -- it's going to take a long time to make a dent in the local monster population even if the monsters are tame as rabbits.

I really like the idea of the plot hooks and will probably use that. My only concern is that I hate running combats that range into the 100+ participants. On the otherhand, I can envision the Red Ravens stumbling upon a farily powerful monster and nearly getting defeated, such as a Behir or a Beholder.

Figure that much of their time might be in section-sized reconnaissance or "presence" patrols. When they make contact, they'll retreat back to base (unless they've got a wizard with sending or some other means of communication). They've probably taken casualties, so it might be up to the PCs to respond to the threat.

You needed run massive combats. Basically, for a given week you can have multiple "situation reports" come in, with varying results: Patrol X defeats small goblin band, Patrol Y kills owlbear, Patrol Z retreats from large orc band, Patrol A reports wyverns massing a some hilltop, etc. Then let the PCs decide how to handle events. Some you'll just handle off stage -- and their merc commander will let them know when the PCs need to get invovled (unless he's actually shady, doing nothing and just banking the money, which historically a lot of mercenaries were). If the PCs force the mercs out against something over their head, they'll take heavy casualties.

Olgar, on another note, I have heard you are running a similar campaign, could you give me your thoughts?

Heh, my own group didn't take up the "Baron of the Stonelands" hook. I've provided a lot of advice, here's one more: the PCs are the heroes. Mercenaries aren't there to make things easy and gather wealth for the PCs while they sit on their duffs. Let the mercenaries handle routine "off stage" stuff -- guarding caravans, manning outposts, routine patrols. The PC actions determine the real outcome. If patrols are encountering more and more goblins, for example, and the PCs don't realize the goblins are massing for a strike against their stronghold (expecting the merc to handle it), let them find themselves beseiged.

Some events that might occur:

- Raids on supply caravans
- Establishing treaties with local monster tribes (think back to the Indian Wars: you have this huge indigenous population, who has no particular reason or desire to adopt to your way of life. Are you going to kill them all, displace them, settle them into reservations, "civilize" them, what?)
- Competing merc groups out to earn the title for themselves
- Someone tries (even succeeds!) in bribing the PCs mercenaries to "look the other way"
- A large force beseiges their stronghold
- Forces fight over magic from Netherese ruins
... etc.

One more question that I was mulling over is that if the Red Ravens suffer loses etc., then that probably means that they receive fresh recruits, etc., to refill their ranks. I guess this can explain why there are only so many higher level characters. I like this idea though, since it reflects the dangers of mercenary life, explains why the Red Ravens are having a hard time with their tasks, why there are so many 1st-level Red Ravens, etc.

Yep. Lots of new War 1s (if lucky, commoners if not) regularly coming in -- and going again due to death, wounds, desertion, disease. Figure for every death you'll lose 2-3 soldiers permanently incapacitated to wounds or disease (unless there's an overabundance of high-level clerics or healing magic). Heck, you could run a whole session on solving a recruiting probelm for more mercenaries once word gets out that working for your PCs isn't soft garrison duty.

On another note, a PC has a few followers and was thinking about having them join up with the Red Ravens and help them out. I'm not sure if this will have any appreciable effect. In addition, another PC, using the Leadership Feat and good role-playing, has acquired 24 1st-level goblin clerics of Lathander. He has instructed them to aid in healing the Red Ravens when they return from patrols. I'm not sure if this will have any appreciable effect as well.

That's a lot of goblin clerics! Picture this: you're a superstitous mecenary, hired to kill off monsters in the Stonelands. Your employer now tells you that your medical and religous support will be these great goblins they've just hired. What would you do?

If I were the passive type, I'd desert; the aggressive types might pick fights with the goblin "allies", all of which would detract from the mission at hand. Doesn't matter that they worship Lathander ... they're still bleeding gobbos.

Take a lesson from history ... it took over a hundred years to "conquer" the indigenous tribes of the American west, which though significantly larger than the Stonelands, was relatively depopulated and the invaders had the benefit of spreading diseases which took down populations without a shot being fired. Lots of great ideas to support your campaign to be found in the history books!

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Yeah, 200 gp a week seems pretty slim for 110 mercenaries. Unless they get looting rights - which might be reasonable.

Here's what I would do.

Let the PC's play the Red Ravens for a session.

Give each PC a 3rd level seargent type, and 3 1st level grunts, or a 4th/2nd split, however you feel it should be. Then let the group of 16-20 mercs try and take out a small encampment of humanoids. They've got no magic backup, no cleric (or maybe a single 2nd or 3rd level cleric). Let them come across some cool stuff that they don't have the skills to understand - mystical writings in a cavern or something like that - nto to be dangerous, but just to underscore that PC's have talents that mercs don't.

It would also personalize the mercs so the players will feel bad if they send them into bad situations. Give each grunt a name and a quirk or two to make them memorable.

The players might get a kick out of it, and hey, you might see that a group like that can handle more than you thought. Or possibly, the players will find out that they can't, first-hand.

 

[dreaded_beast]

Great replies everyone! I feel much more prepared to handle my player's attempts at clearing out the Stonelands now. Another reason why I love EN World.

In regards to the 200 gp week pay, I was getting that info out of the 2nd FR Campaign Setting.

Sounds like my players hiring mercenaries is actually a good thing. It can allow me to introduce more and more plot hooks in the Stonelands.

Thanks everyone!

If you want to add more input, please go right ahead.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Pick out some monsters to inhabit your area of the stonelands.

Choose a point in time to have an encounter.

Work out how many men encounter the critter.

Work out the CR of that many men.

Use the calculations on average resources and the like to work out how many men die fighting the creature.

Report the losses.

At a guess, you've got 100 goons. Roughly: 60 are 1st level warriors, 29 are 2nd, 14 are 3rd and 7 are 4th.

So, in a squad of 20 men, you've got 12 1st level warriors, 5 second level warriors, 2 3rd level warriors and a single 4th.

At a rough estimate, I'd say that's about a cr 8 encounter. That's being a little generous.

Against, say, 4 owlbears (equal CR), you'd expect this group to lose 1/4 of their daily resources - in this case hitpoints. If we're nice, then everyone in the group loses 1/4 of their hitpoints. Against monsters which can smoosh a 1st level warrior in a single hit, I think we're being overly nice.

We've got 32 hit dice to play with. 1/4 of those hit dice will be lost - or 8 hit dice worth. If we assume that those 8 hit dice are evenly distributed, you lose 4 hit dice of 1st level warriors, 2 hit dice of 2nd level warriors, 1 hit dice of 4th level warriors and no hit dice from the 4th level warrior.

Which means you've probably got 4 guys downed during the fight (those poor 4 hit dice of 1st level warriors). 1 of those 4 probably dies - the rest get stabilised and taken care of.

Things to note: The CR of creatures with any form of area-effect attack will go up significantly, because you're relying on multiple low-level creatures for your CR. For example, I'd expect a young red dragon (CR 7) to wipe out all 12 1st level warriors in the above squad in it's first action and kill most of the second level warriors, then finish off those left with it's next breath attack. I very much doubt that there will be a man left standing after the combat, or that the squad will have done any appreciable damage to the monster.

That said - the mercenaries should probably make reports to that effect - "Today we had a battle with a small group of owlbears. One man was lost. Our scouts have found what appears to be the lair of a small dragon - I seriously doubt that I can take it on without committing most of the force for the day, and even then I expect losses to be heavy. Do you still wish me to proceed?"

Of course if the players answer 'yes' to a question such as this, the ensuing death and destruction should probably result in a great many desertions...

 

[Coredump]

Well, their strategy is basically having the Red Ravens begin to start a patrol around the PC stronghold enlarging their patrol area each time and dealing with any threats that occur or come up, I believe up to a 50-mile radius.

**50 miles**??!!?? Wow, that is a HUGE area. I don't know FR geography, but these don't sound like horse friendly lands. And it seems unlikely that all the mercs will have horses.
I don't know where you live, but think of a place 50 miles away, and imagine having to patrol all the way there. and that is only one direction.

110 men, lets say they can cover 1/2 mile in each direction while they march. That means they have to march *7800* miles to cover the entire area. Lets say they all have horses, and lets say they can move 35 miles a day. That is still 225 days, *Just to walk* the distance. That does not include fighting monsters, resting after fighting. scouting monster lairs, helping the wounded, getting supplies, training, etc.

Realisticly, mercenaries don't like to die any more than PC's do. So they take their time, they scout carefully. When they find a possible monster lair, they scout it in detail, then they watch it for more info. Then they make a plan, and attack when time best serves. (night, dawn, etc, whatever) They then take time to rest and heal. This may easily take a few to several days.
They could easily take one day (or two) a week off as a 'no work' day, and one day a week off for training. So it could be as little as 4 days a week for actual scouting and fighting and moving.

And don't forget, they have to stop everynight and *secure* a camp. They are, afterall, behind enemy lines. I could easily see this campaign being a 3+ year endeavor. And that doesn't even include monsters re-settling the place that they already cleared out. Any where that they have not been in a month could easily be found and taken over by other bands of monsters. Scenario: they attack and slaughter tribe of orcs. Weeks later, they attack band of goblins; goblins are smart enough to run like hell. Guess what, they end up finding the now empty orc lair....

It is kind of like trying to kill all the cockroaches in a large castle, but you can only do one room per day, and there are 100 rooms. Good luck.

As for the 10%, I would have the Red Ravens tell them that if they contracted for those 110 mercs, if they want them replaced, they need to pay for recruiting and training. And that will cost. Or after a couple of months, word gets out, and they have to pay more to get recruits, so price goes up. Do *not* let this get to be a money making venture for the PC's

 

[dreaded_beast]

Pick out some monsters to inhabit your area of the stonelands...etc...

I love it!

Thanks for doing all the calculations for me, hehe. I was actually going to start working on this between classes, but I figured I would check the board first.

This is great!

For everyone who has been keeping up with this thread, next session is this Wednesday. I'm planning to have a little "patrol" combat near the begginning of the session.

I'm going to have the PCs actually play a group of Red Ravens on patrol around the Stonelands, probably using the stats from the previous post. I'll probably through out a fairly typical creature for the Stonelands, maybe a couple of Behirs or Bulettes or maybe even a wandering Beholder (the description in FR Campaign set that mad beholders wander the Stonelands, heh).

Just for fighting the encounter, I will give the PCs 100xp since I'm sure the PCs don't want to waste time playing characters that don't really contribute anything to their actual character growth or development. I did that as a player before. While it was a novelty, after spending more than half the session playing one-shot characters, we were itching to get back and play our real ones. If the PCs are lucky enough to beat the encounter, I will probably give out 1/10 the experience needed for next level.

Hopefully, this will show my players that being a mercenary is not an easy job and the task they have hired them for is immense. Especially since the mercenaries are mainly armed with studded leather and longswords, based on the flavor text, hehe.

 

[kuje31]

I don't have much to add here, but maybe you can get some ideas from AEG's Mercenaries book. It is a nice thick tome about, well, Mercenaries.