Pathfinder 1E [MERGED] Pathfinder forum complaint threads

[DaveMage]

I like the new Pathfinder forum.

It was hard sifting through all the crap in General to find the Pathfinder threads.

 

[jaerdaph]

It's a deliberate conspiracy aimed at ruling the world.

I for one welcome our new Southampton Overlords!

 

[Aus_Snow]

Well, it's certainly made 'general RPG discussion' extremely 4e-centric. Is that how 'General' is meant to be?

Also, 4e will still get, essentially, plenty of free publicity in 'General'. Which is fine, of course! But Pathfinder, on the other hand? People will have to know about it already, else all they might hear about (here) is 4e - that is, if you don't know about it yet, why check a forum dedicated to that thing you've never heard of - and the occasional bit of OD&D/BD&D/AD&D, and maybe a random mix of other games at times.

Not to mention, products and services that come out for either system. That's where it will be exceedingly unbalanced and unfair, constantly. Say, new things are made for DDI, or D&D minis, or 4e supplements are discussed, like. . . MM2? MM3? Demonicon? Anyway, whatever. Those things will get plenty of threads in 'General', as is the case right now. Compare: suplpements, minis, software, services, whatever else is / will be for/about Pathfinder - it'll have to be in a less frequented (than 'General'), specialised forum that is most likely to be visited at all by those already decided on / invested in that game, obviously. Well, that, or it'll get shunted there ASAP.

And this right now, with Pathfinder just released! Terrible timing, even if such a curious move 'had' to be made for some bizarre, as yet unspecified reason.

I know that was kinda verging of a . But I feel it needed to be said. And heard.

Anyway, I hope that all makes it a little more clear, exactly how and why things are already heavily skewed in favour of 4e (and, by extension, WotC) - and how that isn't going to get any better with things as they stand.

Please do reconsider.

 

[Morrus]

Well, it's certainly made 'general RPG discussion' extremely 4e-centric. Is that how 'General' is meant to be?

It's not "meant" to be anything.

Also, 4e will still get, essentially, plenty of free publicity in 'General'. Which is fine, of course! But Pathfinder, on the other hand?

The forums don't exist to publicise anything; or even to generate conversation. They exist merely to facilitate conversations folks want to have. If RPG companies want publicity, they're welcome to pay me for it! Otherwise, my only concern here is afacilitating the various conversations which take place and making things easier for some folks.

Now Pathfinder fans can come here and find a forum filled with threads about their favourite game. No need to scroll though multiple pages and various forums.

Not to mention, products and services that come out for either system. That's where it will be exceedingly unbalanced and unfair, constantly.

I don't quite grasp this desire for "fairness". "Fair" to who? RPG companies? We're not adjudicating a criminal trial here, we're just chatting about games. It's not a statement on the respective quality of the different games, it's not an international consortium of game sales adjudication, it's not a trade restriction or a law, it's not an election. The byword is "convenience", not "fairness".

Anyway, I hope that all makes it a little more clear, exactly how and why things are already heavily skewed in favour of 4e (and, by extension, WotC) - and how that isn't going to get any better with things as they stand.

Please do reconsider.

Well, as I said earlier, I totally disagree. I see this as a promotion and more exposure, more convenient facilities for Pathfinder fans.

Anyway, it's just a forum on a messageboard. Neither WotC nor Paizo need EN World's help to sell plenty of books, and both have perfectly fine, large and busy messageboards of their own where they can be as "fair" to themselves as they wish. This arrangement may, as I believe, make things more convenient, or it may not. Only time will tell.

There's this thread here saying this is bad for Pathfinder folks, and there's the thread in the forum saying how great it is for Pathfinder folks. Whether it's bad or great, or both, or neither, it just really isn't that big a deal. It's not going to affect anybody's fortunes one iota.

Anyway, you are welcome to express your opinion, but I don't want to give the false impression to folks that this is a decision by committee or some kind of democratic process. I've decided to make this change; and some point in the future I may decide to make other changes, or change back, or turn the site into a Pokemon website, or ban discussion of anything coloured yellow, or employ my dog as a moderator, and they'll all be arbitrary decisions primarily made accoridng to my personal opinion of what would work best. So you're welcome to offer your views, and I'll read 'em, but for the moment this is the arrangement I want to go with. It's not going to please everyone, but no action will please everyone.

 

[Doodles]

As long as the subforum doesn't turn into a ghetto like the RPGNet d20 area - that is, as long as PF discussions of a general relevance go into the general forum - there should be no trouble, and a [PF] tag is both easy and recognisable. Rules-related discussions - there is a good case for putting them in a separate area.

This.

I appreciate the new PF forum because I don't have to browse through 4e threads to get to what I really want out of this forum, but at the same time, I don't want it to turn into a "Pathfinder Ghetto".

Add a [PF] tag for the threads with General relevance, please.

 

[Morrus]

Add a [PF] tag for the threads with General relevance, please.

This I did yesterday.

 

[resistor]

Morrus,

You point out some good reasons for the existence of a Pathfinder forum, which I support.

What bothers me is the (apparent) different standards of moderation for PF and 4e threads. Being somewhat generous and assuming that Dark Sun counts as general interest, I count six threads in General at the moment that are wholly 4e-specific, discussing 4e classes, 4e products, etc. Most of the points you made above, about the efficacy of centralizing discussion about a particular game, also apply here. Why aren't these threads being moved to the 4e forum?

Whether or not the actually division is good or bad (there being arguments both ways), I think the inconsistency is the most irksome part of the whole deal.

 

[freyar]

So the reason I first posted about this was seeing 4e threads in General RPG Discussion and all Pathfinder threads moved to the other forum. It seemed a bit inconsistent.

At the same time, I appreciate not wanting to swamp General RPG Discussion and also wanting a convenient place for Pathfinder discussion. Also, it's hard for me to say, looking at the 4e threads in General RPG Discussion, that they really belong in 4e Rules or 4e Houserules, most of them at least. They are the kind of topic that usually ends up in General RPG Discussion. It's just that all the Pathfinder threads of similar type are now in a separate forum.

So, maybe this is what Morrus plans to do already, but here's a suggestion anyway. In a few days, when the hubbub has died down, can the Pathfinder forum be switched to Pathfinder Rules (and Houserules, possibly), maybe listed with the 3e rules forums, and product information/news-type threads about Pathfinder RPG go back into General RPG Discussion? The tag you already added will be great for that.

 

[resistor]

So, maybe this is what Morrus plans to do already, but here's a suggestion anyway. In a few days, when the hubbub has died down, can the Pathfinder forum be switched to Pathfinder Rules (and Houserules, possibly), maybe listed with the 3e rules forums, and product information/news-type threads about Pathfinder RPG go back into General RPG Discussion? The tag you already added will be great for that.

+1 for this proposal

 

[Aus_Snow]

Thanks for responding, Morrus. Politely, at that!

And sorry, I did get a bit ranty there, as I suspected. For what it's worth, I'm *not* one of those of the mind that 'these kinds of things' (well, I don't even see it in that way, for starters) are because of deliberate favouritism, corporate sweeteners or whatever else like that. And I think this is a great site, that you've done a pretty darn good job with.

Which is why, I suppose, I felt strongly enough about it to express those views, in that way.

I hope everything works out best for all involved, in the end, whatever happens.

Cheers, mate.