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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8791687" data-attributes="member: 67338">I can not stress enough, batman knew he won before he entered the throne room. HOWEVER he beat up a different new god, took his armor and then went and punched Darkseid.... cause he couldn't just walk in and start talking he went in and fought him. This is not the only example of him being in the fight when logic says he shouldn't (cause he's batman) but it sure does prove he beat him.Now before we say that superman would go and punch Darkseid too... yeah he would, but that's not how superman wins either... the only way to beat him (outside of final crisis were batman shot him and was 1/3 the kill... I can't remember what wonderwoman did with the lasso but superman sang him to death as the final blow) is to outsmart himlets talk durability... lets talk getting hit by Solomon Grundy and amazo (with superman str) and surviving. Lets talk fighting the same Parademons that can hit superman (not a lot just a little, but enough that in mass they are a minor threat) and that superman can't always 1 shot... lets talk about The white Martians 'killing' him by taking down his batplane to find out he tanked a crash and was fine (if that isn't D&D hp I don't know what is) then somehow in a super advanced alien city with super sensors and 6 Martians with super senses (1 with speed equal to flash) moves around unseen and gets the JL who were all taken out free. The number of times he has NOT been able to use his skills in the fight WAY outnumber the times he OWNED (not participated owned) the fight.TORG has a great system for playing a batman like character next to super beings... in a fight choose a skill, any skill you can come up with a quick explanation for. Roll that as an 'attack' and if you hit an ally gains a buff or an enemy a debuff.  And yet that is not what happens... if gotham gets nuked batman's plot armor (read HP) protect him. unless he can... like when he lands a punch and knocks him back...[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcomicnewbies.com%2F2013%2F03%2F20%2Fhow-batman-earned-darkseids-admiration%2F&psig=AOvVaw2AdEGYo2p1N_hZGtR4HAdv&ust=1665060349442000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAwQjRxqFwoTCODpjK2PyfoCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD[/URL]or he shoots him with a god killer bullet[URL unfurl="true"]https://screenrant.com/how-batman-killed-darkseid-dc-comics/[/URL]or the time he went to resurrect his son...or like when batman 1 shot wonder woman punching her in the stomach, or in a cross over kicked the wind out of hulk, or the time he boxed wonder womans ears...for a 'normal guy' he fights 'can't believe they are not gods' all the timeor the time he kicked the reality warping specter (gods wraith... not a god THEY God with a capital G)[URL unfurl="true"]https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/batman-286/batman-punching-above-his-weight-celebration-1476099/[/URL]</blockquote>

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