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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8791742" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I only watched the clip, but Batman didn't fight Darkseid at all. He walked in, told Darkseid the situation, then got punched, thrown through a wall, and punched some more. He didn't throw a single punch or kick back at Darkseid. There was no fight, there was Darkseid kicking him around. And, again, sure Batman was able to use the Hell Spores to get Darkseid to stand down. But, here is the question, Darkseid comes to Gotham, where there are no Hell Spores to explode the planet Earth. What does Batman do then? "Well, he'd find some other way to defeat him!" Like what? The problem is, it can't be anything in Batman's utility belt. It can't be anything in the batcave. It can't be anything Batman normally has access to in any normal comic, because NONE of that can phase Darkseid. Which means it has to be something ADDED to the scenario for the sole purpose of Batman being smart enough to use it to win. This is why a lot of people say Batman's greatest power is Plot Armor, because at this scale where many other heroes can comfortably operate, he needs special things added to the story specifically to allow him to operate and be effective. Sure, let's talk durability. Let's talk about him being stabbed with a knife and bleeding. Let's talk him being shot with a pistol and bleeding. Let's talk about him getting hit with a baseball bat and feeling it, or being punched by Harley Quinn and feeling it. He's completely inconsistent in terms of durability. But, we can default to the truism. He is a man. A human with no powers. He's stronger, faster, and tougher than normal, but he isn't superpower levels of tough. And again, you present me with a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The entire Justice League is captured by the White Martians, so Batman uses his stealth and deception skills (which I've never doubted he has) on a SOLO MISSION. Why does that Solo Mission exist? Why did the writers have the entire league captured and write an entire sub-plot about Batman using one of his greatest skills to free them and allow them to fight again? Because they need a way to show Batman is just as much as a hero as the others, so they create a special situation that only his specific skill set can solve. And once he has done so, everyone else continues doing what they do. And again, you keep making my points for me. How does he survive a nuke? Plot ArmorHow does he kill Darkseid? God Killing Bullet he finds, or magic armor he gets. Some of these are also just blatantly inconsistent. Which is what happens when you have so many different writers and different continuity. IF Wonder Woman can have moutains thrown at her and be fine, then a ma with only human strength couldn't hit her stomach hard enough to deflate her diaphram. It simply is impossible. But, Batman was the hero, and he needed to win the fight, so they tried to come up with a way to make that happen, such as saying that an immortal warrior who has trained for centuries has never had someone hit them in the stomach before.Sure, it sounds very DnD, but that isn't the point. The Ulitmate Nullifier is the exact same threat to Galactus in the hands of a five year old child as it is in the hands of Earth's Mightiest Heroes. The story isn't about how the Fantastic Four can come up with a plan to stop this great threat, the story is that after failing repeatedly, they have a cosmic god come, tell them where the cosmic god weapon is, and they use that weapon to win. To turn it into DnD terms again, if you just had to go to the Temple of Lathander and pick up the "Wand of Instantly killing Orcus with no save" have you defeated Orcus? Technically yes, but it was nothing you actually mattered for, what mattered was having the "I Win" button.</blockquote>

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