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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8794263" data-attributes="member: 6801228">And they are as awesome as equals BECAUSE they are allowed special powers. This is the fundamental disconnect. You keep trying to claim that surviving a punch from Superman that can split planets isn't super durability, it comes from &quot;just being that awesome&quot; but that makes no sense. &quot;Being Awesome&quot; doesn't give you the ability to survive what you cannot survive. The reason I am harping on this is because if you keep trying to limit things like this, your end result will leave these classes right back where they currently are. &quot;You are Awesome (for a normal person)&quot; This is part of why I think we should steal so much more from Eastern Traditions for our Fantasy games. Because &quot;I just trained&quot; is a legitmate way to get super strength, to get super durability, to get the ability to shapeshift, or to shoot fire. &quot;You are so highly trained, you gain super powers&quot; is a thing that makes sense. But claiming you have no super powers while demonstrating super powers makes no sense, and it limits us. King Arthur was just a normal man... who could turn bricks of gold into powder with his bare hands and shatter castle walls with a single blow. He had super strength. Let the martials have super powers, not &quot;I'm olympic level&quot; super powers. Straight up &quot;this is impossible, but I'm doing it anyways&quot; levels of super powers. And admit they are powers, so that people can't claim that having them makes no sense, because you don't have powers.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8794263, member: 6801228"] And they are as awesome as equals BECAUSE they are allowed special powers. This is the fundamental disconnect. You keep trying to claim that surviving a punch from Superman that can split planets isn't super durability, it comes from "just being that awesome" but that makes no sense. "Being Awesome" doesn't give you the ability to survive what you cannot survive. The reason I am harping on this is because if you keep trying to limit things like this, your end result will leave these classes right back where they currently are. "You are Awesome (for a normal person)" This is part of why I think we should steal so much more from Eastern Traditions for our Fantasy games. Because "I just trained" is a legitmate way to get super strength, to get super durability, to get the ability to shapeshift, or to shoot fire. "You are so highly trained, you gain super powers" is a thing that makes sense. But claiming you have no super powers while demonstrating super powers makes no sense, and it limits us. King Arthur was just a normal man... who could turn bricks of gold into powder with his bare hands and shatter castle walls with a single blow. He had super strength. Let the martials have super powers, not "I'm olympic level" super powers. Straight up "this is impossible, but I'm doing it anyways" levels of super powers. And admit they are powers, so that people can't claim that having them makes no sense, because you don't have powers. [/QUOTE]

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