D&D 4E messy's 4e newbie questions thread

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

There's a ranger utility (I think it's a daily) that cancels the ranger's surprise, and that of a few allies equal to the ranger's Wisdom score.

The Uncanny Dodge feat takes away the +2 to hit from combat advantage (perhaps only from being flanked?). Note that you're still granting combat advantage and can still be sneak attacked.

There's a fighter utility that can cancel combat advantage from a single attack.

 

[Sound of Azure]

There is also the heroic tier Stoneroot's Endurance feat, which allows you to roll a d20 when critically hit. On a 10 or higher, it becomes a normal hit. Changelings also have available the Epic feat Fluid Anatomy, which allows a saving throw against critical hits. It's stronger, since saving throws can be boosted.

 

[messy]

59. in addition to 2 at will powers, 1 encounter power, 1 daily power, action points, and second wind, at first level a character also has class features, racial abilities, powers granted by magic items, and skill-related abilities (like bluff's create diversion to hide and gain combat advantage). so at first level a character can have around 10 options on each turn.

at 30th level, a character has the same, but with 4 encounter powers, 4 daily powers, and 7 utility powers. so at 30th level a character can have over 20 options on each turn.

is this too many options?

kamsahamnida.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

in addition to 2 at will powers, 1 encounter power, 1 daily power, action points, and second wind, at first level a character also has class features, racial abilities, powers granted by magic items, and skill-related abilities (like bluff's create diversion to hide and gain combat advantage). so at first level a character can have around 10 options on each turn.

at 30th level, a character has the same, but with 4 encounter powers, 4 daily powers, and 7 utility powers. so at 30th level a character can have over 20 options on each turn.

is this too many options?

kamsahamnida.

That's not too many options. At higher levels, the real "option tax" are off-turn abilities. Some have exacting triggers, and a player can easily forget about them. Worse, the Character Builder sheets do not organize powers properly, so it's easier to make these mistakes. (That's one reason I always use a paper character sheet.)

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

in addition to 2 at will powers, 1 encounter power, 1 daily power, action points, and second wind, at first level a character also has class features, racial abilities, powers granted by magic items, and skill-related abilities (like bluff's create diversion to hide and gain combat advantage). so at first level a character can have around 10 options on each turn.

at 30th level, a character has the same, but with 4 encounter powers, 4 daily powers, and 7 utility powers. so at 30th level a character can have over 20 options on each turn.

is this too many options?

kamsahamnida.

In a word, yeah, it is rather. If you look at 4e on the day it came out you'd have say a typical fighter with a daily, an encounter power, 2 at-wills, and lets say he's a dwarf he's got several passive benefits (save vs push, +5 saves vs poison, I forget exactly what else). You'd also possibly have a feat that might add something, but 95% of the time it will just be a static bonus (IE dwarves would generally take something like Dwarven Weapon Training). So, the model was a fairly restricted set of options, the character would also have had a combat superiority move to remember, but that would be it. That's a fair amount but not TOO much. Even in that day a paragon dwarf fighter would have something like 3 daily powers, 3 encounter powers, probably something from at least one feat, and some sort of PP thing.

Nowadays your level 1 guy has at least an extra power for his theme. Many of the newer classes have a bit more complex options than just "2 at-will and some sort of class feature". It does get a bit cluttered when you factor in all the APs and other possible actions. I think early 4e was a bit on the complex side, and modern 4e is a bit TOO far on the complex side. That's probably the worst aspect of 4e. Even so, 4e's rules are so simple and well-structured that you CAN deal with it. The issue is more when you have the type of players that don't want to deal at all with mechanical issues. They may feel a bit out of their depth. I've had players that never really MASTERED the rules for their character. There are some relatively simple classes though, like Ranger, Slayer, etc.

 

[sabrinathecat]

It is getting there. I finished Scales of War with a lvl30 Warlock, and my Dwarf Fighter is now lvl25. Both started at 1st level. I frequently have/had daily powers left at the end of the "day", because they weren't useful, or they didn't come up (Twilight Teleport, which I picked up at lvl11 from my paragon path only got used 3 times, but once did save another PC from falling into lava). But because I started them at 1st level, I was very familiar with the way they worked. I alsu usually have about 1/2 of my fighter's encounter powers left at the end of the battles, because they didn't happen, or the fight was over. Given that most fights are over in 3-4 rounds (I think 5 is the average length of any fight), if you have 8-10 encounter powers, well, that's a lot of left overs.

So, if you start at low levels, the number of powers can be managed without too much difficulty. If you throw someone in the deepend with a lvl 26-30 character, chances are they won't play efficiently or well, and may not have a very good time.

 

[MarkB]

in addition to 2 at will powers, 1 encounter power, 1 daily power, action points, and second wind, at first level a character also has class features, racial abilities, powers granted by magic items, and skill-related abilities (like bluff's create diversion to hide and gain combat advantage). so at first level a character can have around 10 options on each turn.

at 30th level, a character has the same, but with 4 encounter powers, 4 daily powers, and 7 utility powers. so at 30th level a character can have over 20 options on each turn.

is this too many options?

kamsahamnida.

It can be overwhelming when first starting out, but as you play a character, you'll become very familiar with its encounter and at-will powers, and reasonably familiar with its daily and utility powers. Once you get comfortable with a character you'll get a feel for when to use which option.

There's no denying, though, that some things can fall through the cracks - especially seldom-used utility or item powers. It's worth sitting down with a character sheet every once in awhile between sessions, and just checking out all its nooks and crannies to remind yourself of items you've forgotten, either to use them more often or to trade them out for something less easily-overlooked.

 

[The Human Target]

Not taking any of the super situational feats in the game really helps.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Many of the newer classes and powers are also really situational, and newer players often don't realize this at first. More experienced DMs need to look at the character sheets every once in a while and make suggestions. "I notice you have X but haven't used it in four levels..."

 

[messy]

60. following up on #20, how does two-weapon fighting work for a non-ranger only using the phb1?

61. is there a melee basic attack option that uses dexterity for attacks and damage?

62. does the movement associated with deft strike provoke opportunity attacks?

63. is the shift associated with nimble strike any different than a typical shift?

64. concealment only applies to targets of melee or ranged attacks. what attacks does it not apply to?

much gratitude for all responses.