Michael Morris
First Post
Hello everyone. After four days work and guided by several person's help and concern on the meta forumns proper, I have completed a script designed to increase the ease of navigation throughout the ENWorld site while requiring a minimal change to the existing infrastructure of both the site and messageboards. An example of this script can be found here.
Attached to this post is a simple poll. Yea or Nay to this addition or wait until it can be turned on or off. Note that this vote is just a way of getting a feel for how the community as a whole feels about this addition - it is also the reason why this is being posted here rather than in the Meta forumns because it is important that as many folks on the boards as possible are aware of the possible change and can voice their opinions either by voting or by replying to this post.
A few words about this setup and how will affect the site if it is used.
First, it will only work on Gecko and MSIE compatible browsers. That means no Netscape 4.x or earlier browsers, no Konqueror browser and some of the older Linux browsers. The server is programmed to run a test for non-compatible browsers and it will simply not send the necessary code to them (If you follow the link above under NS 4.x for example you'll get the message "unsupported browser" along with information about your browser and OS that your browser gives to every webserver you visit). The reasoning behind this is that these browsers cannot be depended upon to properly process the JAVAscript. Rather than have unpredictable results with the script, it is better to just not load it.
(As a side note, the detection process isn't fullproof. Older versions of Opera and MSIE (3.0 or earlier) will have trouble with this code. I do not know how to specifically check for these browsers because the information they send to the server is quite identical to the information sent by their newer descendants. If I wrote a PHP script that accounted for every possible broswer and OS combination the server would break down trying to process it. Since both Opera and MSIE tend to be kept current by network admins I don't expect this to be a problem - Indeed I haven't seen an instance of MSIE 3.x or ealier for a couple of years).
The script itself weighs about 50 KB. A 28.8 kbs connection needs an estimated 14.3 seconds to load it the first time. Afterwards, unless you set your security settings to prohibit the caching (Never advised if you use dialup at all) it will not need to reload. Both the processor time used to excecute the PHP detection script and the size of the image map code that must remain within the page and be redownloaded each time a new page is encounted are nominal (specifically, the menubody is 1699 bytes, and will add a third of a second to the download time of a 28.8 modem).
To my knowledge all browsers capacle of loading the script can execute it correctly (the one exception reported being AOL 8.0's internal browser. While duly noted, I have reason to believe a faulty system configuration is to be blamed for the problem, not the script itself. I need independent verification that the script does not behave under AOL 8.0 and if obtained I will find a way to specifically ban it with the browser sniffer script).
My purpose in developing this script is to help with navigation of the site - both messageboards and the main site. This development is meant to supplement the existing navigation aids - not replace them. It is specifically designed to be available for those users whose browsers can use them effectively and to not interfere with the use of the site for those whose browsers cannot use them properly.
A drop down menu system is the most effective system I can think of to navigate this site which is growing each day. Its development is the best way I can think of to give back to a community which is dear to me and which I am proud to be a part of. It is sadly a process that is more complicated than it should be since it involves the use of a technology (namely Java Script) that Microsoft and Netscape managed to muck up with their long standing feud. While the number of browsers unable to handle this code is a small section of the total (Depending on who you ask, 10%-30%), it is a significant enough portion of the community that the non-functionality needs to be addressed and no proposed solution - this or any other - should leave those users out in the cold. This is why I recommend supplementing the existing structure rather than changing it.
Two final notes. It should be possible, eventually, to add the option of enabling or disabling this feature as part of the user account features both here and on the boards. While this can address an individual users concerns, it does not address the appearance of the site for new visitors. I strongly believe that this item's inclusion should be the default - and that developing the means to turn it off and on for individual users should come later. New visitors are the ones who need a clean navigation system the most and if their browser supports it they should get it.
Second, it is my hope that this can be included as part of all hosted sites - that said I don't want it to be a mandatory. I am willing to work with the webmasters of the other hosted sites to design and implement drop down menus specific to their sites that still link back to ENWorld as a whole. Consider for a moment how this simple little bar system is used on WotC's site or other professional sites. WotC has some very wide ranging product lines with websites specifically tailored to those products and yet the primary navigation bar with logo helps to tie the site together as a unified whole - often it is the only thing that ties a page back to their company to someone unfamiliar with the product (Speaking of Wotc, many have pointed out that this system looks a lot like there's. Well, it should - I'm using the same program to generate it as they are). At the time I am writing this only Jagged End's site and Dusk have the ENWorld logo or any indication of their host on the front page. The addition of a menubar would not be a huge change for any of the hosted sites except Malls & Morons (And that is because Frames + Layers = VERY, VERY bad idea). It is my opinion that we - the hosted site webmasters - should return a bit more back to Russ than no recognition for the site space at all, even if he has never asked for anything more.
Anyway, if you reached the end of this long post, Thank you for your time.
Attached to this post is a simple poll. Yea or Nay to this addition or wait until it can be turned on or off. Note that this vote is just a way of getting a feel for how the community as a whole feels about this addition - it is also the reason why this is being posted here rather than in the Meta forumns because it is important that as many folks on the boards as possible are aware of the possible change and can voice their opinions either by voting or by replying to this post.
A few words about this setup and how will affect the site if it is used.
First, it will only work on Gecko and MSIE compatible browsers. That means no Netscape 4.x or earlier browsers, no Konqueror browser and some of the older Linux browsers. The server is programmed to run a test for non-compatible browsers and it will simply not send the necessary code to them (If you follow the link above under NS 4.x for example you'll get the message "unsupported browser" along with information about your browser and OS that your browser gives to every webserver you visit). The reasoning behind this is that these browsers cannot be depended upon to properly process the JAVAscript. Rather than have unpredictable results with the script, it is better to just not load it.
(As a side note, the detection process isn't fullproof. Older versions of Opera and MSIE (3.0 or earlier) will have trouble with this code. I do not know how to specifically check for these browsers because the information they send to the server is quite identical to the information sent by their newer descendants. If I wrote a PHP script that accounted for every possible broswer and OS combination the server would break down trying to process it. Since both Opera and MSIE tend to be kept current by network admins I don't expect this to be a problem - Indeed I haven't seen an instance of MSIE 3.x or ealier for a couple of years).
The script itself weighs about 50 KB. A 28.8 kbs connection needs an estimated 14.3 seconds to load it the first time. Afterwards, unless you set your security settings to prohibit the caching (Never advised if you use dialup at all) it will not need to reload. Both the processor time used to excecute the PHP detection script and the size of the image map code that must remain within the page and be redownloaded each time a new page is encounted are nominal (specifically, the menubody is 1699 bytes, and will add a third of a second to the download time of a 28.8 modem).
To my knowledge all browsers capacle of loading the script can execute it correctly (the one exception reported being AOL 8.0's internal browser. While duly noted, I have reason to believe a faulty system configuration is to be blamed for the problem, not the script itself. I need independent verification that the script does not behave under AOL 8.0 and if obtained I will find a way to specifically ban it with the browser sniffer script).
My purpose in developing this script is to help with navigation of the site - both messageboards and the main site. This development is meant to supplement the existing navigation aids - not replace them. It is specifically designed to be available for those users whose browsers can use them effectively and to not interfere with the use of the site for those whose browsers cannot use them properly.
A drop down menu system is the most effective system I can think of to navigate this site which is growing each day. Its development is the best way I can think of to give back to a community which is dear to me and which I am proud to be a part of. It is sadly a process that is more complicated than it should be since it involves the use of a technology (namely Java Script) that Microsoft and Netscape managed to muck up with their long standing feud. While the number of browsers unable to handle this code is a small section of the total (Depending on who you ask, 10%-30%), it is a significant enough portion of the community that the non-functionality needs to be addressed and no proposed solution - this or any other - should leave those users out in the cold. This is why I recommend supplementing the existing structure rather than changing it.
Two final notes. It should be possible, eventually, to add the option of enabling or disabling this feature as part of the user account features both here and on the boards. While this can address an individual users concerns, it does not address the appearance of the site for new visitors. I strongly believe that this item's inclusion should be the default - and that developing the means to turn it off and on for individual users should come later. New visitors are the ones who need a clean navigation system the most and if their browser supports it they should get it.
Second, it is my hope that this can be included as part of all hosted sites - that said I don't want it to be a mandatory. I am willing to work with the webmasters of the other hosted sites to design and implement drop down menus specific to their sites that still link back to ENWorld as a whole. Consider for a moment how this simple little bar system is used on WotC's site or other professional sites. WotC has some very wide ranging product lines with websites specifically tailored to those products and yet the primary navigation bar with logo helps to tie the site together as a unified whole - often it is the only thing that ties a page back to their company to someone unfamiliar with the product (Speaking of Wotc, many have pointed out that this system looks a lot like there's. Well, it should - I'm using the same program to generate it as they are). At the time I am writing this only Jagged End's site and Dusk have the ENWorld logo or any indication of their host on the front page. The addition of a menubar would not be a huge change for any of the hosted sites except Malls & Morons (And that is because Frames + Layers = VERY, VERY bad idea). It is my opinion that we - the hosted site webmasters - should return a bit more back to Russ than no recognition for the site space at all, even if he has never asked for anything more.
Anyway, if you reached the end of this long post, Thank you for your time.
