Metamagic reduction

[Cephid]

Also, you can't lower the Metamagic modifier below 1, so the Empowered Split Ray Disintegrate would still be level 8, not level6 like regular Disintegrate.

I just read Arcane Thesis again.
Winding Road is right in that it does not work with heighten spell, but it does not say "you can't lower the Metamagic modifier below 1" like the incantatrix ability does.

Incantatrix reduces empower and split ray to +1 level each, and in the cast of disentegrate, Arcane Thesis lowers each by 1, reducing the cost to +0 each.

Heighten spell allows a caster to add +x to the level to boost the DC by +x.
Incantertrix would reduce the level increase by 1(to a minimum of +1).
Anything wrong with that?

 

[Nifft]

Also, you can't lower the Metamagic modifier below 1

Some of the better-worded meta-effect reduction mechanics do indeed stipulate that one cannot decrease the level-cost below 1.

Arcane Thesis has no such wording.

The way I read it (much to my horror), it seems Arcane Thesis can even impart negative level adjustment for e.g. Energy Substitution, since it reduces the spell level and not the metamagic effect's adjustment.

A poster child for house rules.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Diirk]

I just read Arcane Thesis again.
Winding Road is right in that it does not work with heighten spell, but it does not say "you can't lower the Metamagic modifier below 1" like the incantatrix ability does.

Incantatrix reduces empower and split ray to +1 level each, and in the cast of disentegrate, Arcane Thesis lowers each by 1, reducing the cost to +0 each.

The incantatrix bit is correct, as "whenever she uses a metamagic feat, the required increase in spell level (if any) is reduced by one (minimum spell level +1)". However for arcane thesis, "When you apply a metamagic feat other than Heighten Spell to that spell, the enhanced spell uses up a spell slot 1 lower than normal".

Thus for an incantatrix, an empowered split ray disruption normally uses up an 8th level slot. If you take arcane thesis in it, you use it at 1 level lower; 7th. The feat applies per spell, not per metamagic applied to the spell.

Also I'd have to say heighten + incantatrix wouldn't work, as the incantatrix ability only reduces the required increase in level of a metamagic feat, whereas heighten has no required increase in level; its purely optional. (Or if you argue it does by virtue of not being able to heighten a spell by 0 levels, the required increase would be +1 which is still too low to be lowered further)

 

[Rystil Arden]

Some of the better-worded meta-effect reduction mechanics do indeed stipulate that one cannot decrease the level-cost below 1.

Arcane Thesis has no such wording.

The way I read it (much to my horror), it seems Arcane Thesis can even impart negative level adjustment for e.g. Energy Substitution, since it reduces the spell level and not the metamagic effect's adjustment.

A poster child for house rules.

Cheers, -- N

Well alright then. But I think we can agree that only the Pun-Punniest of powergamers would ever try to use it to get negative level adjustment and the like.

Also, the Incantatrix's can't let it go to 0, so that should actually still be okay (much like Ray of Enfeeblement + Shadow Strength drain won't put you to 0) unless the metamagic effect begins at +1 or +0.

 

[KerlanRayne]

The Ultimate Magus has a related ability that lets you use a spell to pay for a metamagic feat with the spell level equal to the feat's modifier. In other words, you can trade a 4th level spell to quicken another spell for free.

KerlanRayne