Microtransactions, MMOs, and Play Loops.

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Oh, and speaking about unhealthy and toxic in-game microtransactions, Diablo Immortal is a much better example.

But even there, it's a good counterargument to the notion that microtransactions will doom D&D, since Blizzard has had a relatively light hand with them in WoW, while going to grotesque lengths with them in Diablo Immortal.

 

[Scribe]

Wow, if that's true -- and it doesn't include Hearthstone and Diablo Immortal -- that's shocking. I don't know what those microtransactions would even be. Other than the item that lets people look like raid bosses, which seems to get dropped constantly in raids, I don't know that I see that many shop items in-game.

World of Warcraft has hundreds of people working on it. Even the most elaborate in-game stuff only has a small handful of people and they don't even put out one item a month. The manhours can't be that big of a piece of the pie.

I'll poke around and see if I can disprove what I was saying, I've not been as invested for some time.

Oh, and speaking about unhealthy and toxic in-game microtransactions, Diablo Immortal is a much better example.

Oh man, I watched some of that stuff, and it was grotesque. I just have to shake my head at the naked greed and exploitive behavior sometimes.

 

[CleverNickName]

The Venn Diagram of (Games I Play) and (Microtransactions/Subscription) looks like a pair of binoculars.
Never once in my life have those two circles ever overlapped, and D&D won't change that.

 

[Retreater]

I mean, they could have microtransactions to sell boons, magic items, feats, etc. Level up your character without playing the game.
And yes, they did this before (selling booster packs of boons in the 4e era).

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I mean, they could have microtransactions to sell boons, magic items, feats, etc. Level up your character without playing the game.
And yes, they did this before (selling booster packs of boons in the 4e era).

They could but would any DM allow them? May be they have to in AL play but I doubt I would allow them.

 

[MarkB]

I had a good solid couple of years of enjoyment from WoW, around the time Cataclysm came out, but I've tried going back a few times and couldn't get back into it. The extent to which MMOs incentivise tedium just isn't something I can find the time or attention span for anymore.

 

[Velderan]

As per the fireside chat today, there is a goal within Hasbro to further monetize D&D, one avenue being discussed here on EnWorld being microtransactions and the impact this has or has not had on MMOs.

I dont know that its on topic to the original discussion but my view on this would be.

WoW functioned best, under a feedback loop of having to 'put in the work', the work being playing the game, to achieve the goal of having the best stuff, that added an element of prestige within the game, that you had either done the work, or had been lucky, or had a level of dedication/skill, higher than your peers.

The addition of microtransactions shorts that feedback loop, by simply allowing one to swipe the card of their choice, and buy the 'prestige' or avoid the gameplay loop all together.

Examples include.

Paying to skip content - no need to level up your character.
Paying for cosmetics - no need to play through and earn it within the game, you just buy it.
Paying for character changes or services - decrease in attachment to the character, or degrades the community by having people just transfer.
Paying for mounts - Mounts in WoW used to be quite rare, in how you went about earning them. It was something unique that people had to either work for (Gladiators, Achievements) or get randomly via Boss Drops, or World Drops.

This 'everyone gets a prize, if you pay' decreases the motivation of going out and earning it, or in other words, decreases the motivation to PLAY THE GAME, because the gameplay loop was

Grind to Max -> Farm to Raid -> Raid for Loot.

Microtransactions allow you to skip all of that.

In a nutshell @Whizbang Dustyboots

I agree to a certain extent with the bolded part. Paying for a level boost allows you to skip part of the "Grind to Max" part if we're also factoring in gearing as part of that. If we're considering gearing part of the "Farm to Raid" step, then yeah, I'd 100% agree with paid level boosts allowing you to completely skip the "Grind to Max" step.

Buying a WoW Token and selling that for in-game gold allows you to skip the "Farm to Raid" step of getting consumables and enchants paid for, but as @Whizbang Dustyboots pointed out it also basically killed gold-buying so there's an argument to be made that it didn't cause any damage that wasn't already being caused somewhere else.

The WoW token (or buying gold) allows you to skip the "Raid for Loot" step if you just pay someone to carry you through the hardest content for gear. In TBC Classic while there isn't a WoW Token for sale, gold-buying is definitely a thing and it wasn't unknown to see a fresh 70 warrior with a mix of blue and green gear with a pair of Warglaives because they paid for them in a GDKP. Same thing in the current game with rewards from Mythic raids being sold off in Trade chat for gold. Want a Mythic+ timed key completed? Gold can get that for you too. Didn't like grinding Choregast in Shadowlands? Gold can get that done quickly too. I just don't know if I'd blame the WoW Token for these issues because if it wasn't there, people would just pay some website cash to sell them gold anyhow.

Paying for cosmetics/mounts being harmful? Eh... idk. They don't sell anything for cash that you can earn in-game that I'm aware of and as @Whizbang Dustyboots said you pretty much immediately know who paid $25 for a sparkly horse when you see them.

Paying for character change services degrading the community? Leveling is so fast now that I think if someone was unhappy with their current character/server, they'd just reroll if there wasn't an option to pay to change so I'm not sure that holds up from my experiences. People tend to reroll as whatever class/race is the flavor of the month for the current season anyhow so I don't think there's much character attachment to begin with. Years ago, I played Final Fantasy XI which allowed you to level all of the jobs (classes) on the same character and the server community ended up stronger because you formed more of an identity/reputation playing the same character for years. WoW imo doesn't have the same sense of community because people switch characters so much and I don't know that paid services causes any significant harm to that.

 

[Velderan]

Oh, and speaking about unhealthy and toxic in-game microtransactions, Diablo Immortal is a much better example.

But even there, it's a good counterargument to the notion that microtransactions will doom D&D, since Blizzard has had a relatively light hand with them in WoW, while going to grotesque lengths with them in Diablo Immortal.

Some of the math I've seen on that game of how much it would cost to get a maxed out character based on typical loot box odds... they should have just offered that as a loot box and called it the Jeff Bezos bundle. lol

 

[Velderan]

Thats why I brought it out of that thread. I'm not sure the model for MMO's works at all or even can work for D&D, at least not D&D as it is today.

I think the only way the MMO model works is if WotC really pushes the 3D VTT concept. I find it hard to believe stuff like character boosts would be a thing, but nickel and diming people using the 3D VTT on assets to fill the VTT with? Absolutely. Want a kobold model? $2. A cool looking throne to sit behind your BBEG? $3. A massive Tiamat for the end of your campaign? $5.

I could definitely see that being the worst case scenario. I think it would be far more likely stuff in the Basic Set would be free to use and if you buy an adventure book on D&D Beyond, you'd get the maps and assets in it loaded into your library for use (similar to how Roll20 does it now). Maybe they go with a subscription model for using the 3D VTT with them tossing in some models each month as long as you keep your subscription going.

 

[Mad_Jack]

The Venn Diagram of (Games I Play) and (Microtransactions/Subscription) looks like a pair of binoculars.
Never once in my life have those two circles ever overlapped, and D&D won't change that.

Same here. Anything other than just being able to purchase extra scenery and background stuff in the VTT would just be messed up, in my opinion.