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[Midnight] Defeating the Shadow
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<blockquote data-quote="Nifelhein" data-source="post: 3224267" data-attributes="member: 14129"><p>Pointed fella joining thread. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>Since I think the whole discussion around the setting here is interesting i will be replying a little bit of everything in the thread, I just hope the authors still read it or I willl be kicking a dead horse...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually the greatest problem i have with the sourcebooks is that they ry so hard they actually end up making DMs buy the evil can't be beaten thing, and since i am used to players that do not buy books at all and do not read material even if i hand it to them, I doubt they would be without hope, they haven't read the book, and they know I am all about hope whe it comes to Midnight. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Izrador is but a shadow of his former self (no pun intended), when the Sundering happened his soul and body got separated, his body now lies dedstroyed in the depths of the deep scar it left on the world, Izrdor is still a god a thus immortal, but he can't act all by his own and his ways of interacting with the world are not unlimited, he is not omniscient and can never be at two places at a time. The black mirrors are the way he found to get more power to himself, by draining the magic of the world to himself, and ultimately, to return to the celestial realms and claim his vengeance. Destroying a mirror severs the link Izrador had and causes a backlash effect where large part of the energy the mirror drained is released aroudn the area it was, to the shadow this is both painfula nd a delay, to the world it is much like a nuke.</p><p></p><p>It is one way to delay his plan, but the mirrors are numerous and many of them are hidden or too well protected to make it a possibility for campaigns.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are right, the mirror might not be a great threat to high level PCs and those with good saves, but it is lethal to th population as a whole, the damage is enough to send even some PCs to the after life, specially the ones that ahd to fight to get to the mirror in the first place... not to say getting out may be an issue of facing instantly risen fell and lost souls as well, and they wouldn't be too happy with you causing them that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, not quite damned, no, in 2nd edition they have made a great job on adding quality material to the setting and there comes the notion of the Trapped Spirits and the Eternal, alognside a little more cosmology for the world as well, the souls of all natural beings return to the flow of life of the world itself, so no damnation to their souls, the outsiders and elementals that die in the world, on the other hand, they are trapped and thus cannot be sent home, this may mean they cannot be truly killed, since attacks by itself wouldn't be able to destroy one's soul, and thus they linger on, being able to perceive and interact with somethingt hat closely ties itself to their essence or purpose, elementals may animate bits of the earth, water, ice, pr whatever it is tghat they would be tied to, deemons and devils, as well as celestials, may possess human and fey (the demihumans and not they fey type of monsters) bodies, this makes things a little harder on celestials too.</p><p></p><p>The fell and the lost are those souls that get tied to the world, that want to linger, they may or not come back in their own bodies, they are something close to intelligent zombies, going mindless once they are unable to feed for periods of time. The Lost are ghosts, created out of the souls that could not make their passing, they linger to the world but were also unable to animate a corpse for themselves. The mechanics are changed as well.</p><p></p><p>In 1st edition we had the all souls are locked and without a place to go though.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In Midnight evil and good are even less of an issue, it more of a matter of who you stand against, being evil and fighting the shadow is as likely to make you a hero as fighting it and being good is, the difference is what you would be willing to do and sacrifice to get to victory...</p><p></p><p>I would say alignment in midnight is closer to Shadow aligned, neutral, collaborator (shadow or resistance), resistance (or insurgence) and that is it, there isn't much else to it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It actually is a good one, you would have some adaptations to do, giants in midnight are both rare and deeply corrupted (though I did see a plot once that had a clan of giants that escaped the shadow) this is a new approach to how an epic campaign could happen in Midnight, btw. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, you will hardly be a hero on all places when it comes to Midnight, what is good for the elves may conflict with what is good for the humans, and i am not speaking of getting the shadow out, but what is done in the attempt to get there. There is plenty of space for this kind of tragic tales in midnight too, though i would never do it too often.</p><p></p><p>Sowing discord among the shadow's ranks is uneceessary too, they have plenty of it, what would be needed is either sprak that or enhance it a bit, then watch things happen in less than good ways to the shadow, Fury of Shadow, which i consider the bet book in the line has a line of events for the ultimate assualt on Erethor (the forest of the elves) and guess what, there is enough in fighting there to make this ultimate assualt be just another one... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite6" alt=":cool:" title="Cool :cool:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":cool:" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There is no knowledge of the barrier itself because theren't much knowledge available from what the world was before the sundering, even who the gods were is barely known and of those there are info they have but names and few portfolios, so there is no knowledge of damnation, and as I said before, 2nd edition made this incoherence go away (because it was a rather common complain on 1st edition, the sundering was ages ago, there would be a great issue if souls were limited or something tlike that).</p><p></p><p>BUT I have seen that plot before and am certain mroe than one has used it. I am not going to say it is for you, but it isn't anywhere hopeless for me, neither it is about not making major changes, just that how that is achieved is different in midnight and standard fantasy.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have seen that before as well. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have seen ties of Midnight with Dawnforge in more than one occasion, even changing seats at which came first, in both cases it can easily be done, as far as making this kind of thing can be easily done, that is.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I still feel the loss of rolleyes around here...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is actualy much closer to how Midnight is, when things are bad and all that you don't see much hope and not much of a future, but when things are in the past, it seems like just one age of the world... one that could have lingered, but didn't, that is how i see Midnight myself.</p><p></p><p>Izrador is not as powerfula s the other gods out together, the veil is an act of desperation of a dying god, he turned the power used to slay him into a barrier upon the world, he lsot his body and is now much weaker than eh ever was, if the old gods would return to Aryth, they would make short work of him. But they must be there, must be willing to help and well, I ahve seen a plot where Izrador was actually the greater good, with his fall he was corrupted and what lies beyond are only the evil gods... cruel.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: Olive">And to BelemUmeria:</span></strong></p><p></p><p>What stats have you used for the dave troll, btw? Also, i think that oplot is interesting and the adventure must have been a good one as well, I am not much into the kind of discovery myself, but I like it anyway, congrats on the game, I hope those who gamed with you there enjoyed it. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nifelhein, post: 3224267, member: 14129"] Pointed fella joining thread. ;) Since I think the whole discussion around the setting here is interesting i will be replying a little bit of everything in the thread, I just hope the authors still read it or I willl be kicking a dead horse... Actually the greatest problem i have with the sourcebooks is that they ry so hard they actually end up making DMs buy the evil can't be beaten thing, and since i am used to players that do not buy books at all and do not read material even if i hand it to them, I doubt they would be without hope, they haven't read the book, and they know I am all about hope whe it comes to Midnight. ;) Izrador is but a shadow of his former self (no pun intended), when the Sundering happened his soul and body got separated, his body now lies dedstroyed in the depths of the deep scar it left on the world, Izrdor is still a god a thus immortal, but he can't act all by his own and his ways of interacting with the world are not unlimited, he is not omniscient and can never be at two places at a time. The black mirrors are the way he found to get more power to himself, by draining the magic of the world to himself, and ultimately, to return to the celestial realms and claim his vengeance. Destroying a mirror severs the link Izrador had and causes a backlash effect where large part of the energy the mirror drained is released aroudn the area it was, to the shadow this is both painfula nd a delay, to the world it is much like a nuke. It is one way to delay his plan, but the mirrors are numerous and many of them are hidden or too well protected to make it a possibility for campaigns. You are right, the mirror might not be a great threat to high level PCs and those with good saves, but it is lethal to th population as a whole, the damage is enough to send even some PCs to the after life, specially the ones that ahd to fight to get to the mirror in the first place... not to say getting out may be an issue of facing instantly risen fell and lost souls as well, and they wouldn't be too happy with you causing them that. Well, not quite damned, no, in 2nd edition they have made a great job on adding quality material to the setting and there comes the notion of the Trapped Spirits and the Eternal, alognside a little more cosmology for the world as well, the souls of all natural beings return to the flow of life of the world itself, so no damnation to their souls, the outsiders and elementals that die in the world, on the other hand, they are trapped and thus cannot be sent home, this may mean they cannot be truly killed, since attacks by itself wouldn't be able to destroy one's soul, and thus they linger on, being able to perceive and interact with somethingt hat closely ties itself to their essence or purpose, elementals may animate bits of the earth, water, ice, pr whatever it is tghat they would be tied to, deemons and devils, as well as celestials, may possess human and fey (the demihumans and not they fey type of monsters) bodies, this makes things a little harder on celestials too. The fell and the lost are those souls that get tied to the world, that want to linger, they may or not come back in their own bodies, they are something close to intelligent zombies, going mindless once they are unable to feed for periods of time. The Lost are ghosts, created out of the souls that could not make their passing, they linger to the world but were also unable to animate a corpse for themselves. The mechanics are changed as well. In 1st edition we had the all souls are locked and without a place to go though. In Midnight evil and good are even less of an issue, it more of a matter of who you stand against, being evil and fighting the shadow is as likely to make you a hero as fighting it and being good is, the difference is what you would be willing to do and sacrifice to get to victory... I would say alignment in midnight is closer to Shadow aligned, neutral, collaborator (shadow or resistance), resistance (or insurgence) and that is it, there isn't much else to it. It actually is a good one, you would have some adaptations to do, giants in midnight are both rare and deeply corrupted (though I did see a plot once that had a clan of giants that escaped the shadow) this is a new approach to how an epic campaign could happen in Midnight, btw. ;) Well, you will hardly be a hero on all places when it comes to Midnight, what is good for the elves may conflict with what is good for the humans, and i am not speaking of getting the shadow out, but what is done in the attempt to get there. There is plenty of space for this kind of tragic tales in midnight too, though i would never do it too often. Sowing discord among the shadow's ranks is uneceessary too, they have plenty of it, what would be needed is either sprak that or enhance it a bit, then watch things happen in less than good ways to the shadow, Fury of Shadow, which i consider the bet book in the line has a line of events for the ultimate assualt on Erethor (the forest of the elves) and guess what, there is enough in fighting there to make this ultimate assualt be just another one... :cool: There is no knowledge of the barrier itself because theren't much knowledge available from what the world was before the sundering, even who the gods were is barely known and of those there are info they have but names and few portfolios, so there is no knowledge of damnation, and as I said before, 2nd edition made this incoherence go away (because it was a rather common complain on 1st edition, the sundering was ages ago, there would be a great issue if souls were limited or something tlike that). BUT I have seen that plot before and am certain mroe than one has used it. I am not going to say it is for you, but it isn't anywhere hopeless for me, neither it is about not making major changes, just that how that is achieved is different in midnight and standard fantasy. I have seen that before as well. ;) I have seen ties of Midnight with Dawnforge in more than one occasion, even changing seats at which came first, in both cases it can easily be done, as far as making this kind of thing can be easily done, that is. I still feel the loss of rolleyes around here... That is actualy much closer to how Midnight is, when things are bad and all that you don't see much hope and not much of a future, but when things are in the past, it seems like just one age of the world... one that could have lingered, but didn't, that is how i see Midnight myself. Izrador is not as powerfula s the other gods out together, the veil is an act of desperation of a dying god, he turned the power used to slay him into a barrier upon the world, he lsot his body and is now much weaker than eh ever was, if the old gods would return to Aryth, they would make short work of him. But they must be there, must be willing to help and well, I ahve seen a plot where Izrador was actually the greater good, with his fall he was corrupted and what lies beyond are only the evil gods... cruel. [B][COLOR=Olive]And to BelemUmeria:[/COLOR][/B] What stats have you used for the dave troll, btw? Also, i think that oplot is interesting and the adventure must have been a good one as well, I am not much into the kind of discovery myself, but I like it anyway, congrats on the game, I hope those who gamed with you there enjoyed it. :D [/QUOTE]
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