[Midnight] Defeating the Shadow

[Jürgen Hubert]

Midnight is commonly described as a setting where Evil won. And certainly, the description is fairly accurate - the human lands are occupied by the Shadow In The North, and the elven and dwarven lands are slowly being grinded to oblivion.

Yet I was wondering: Has anyone actually played or run an epic campaign where Izrador was actually defeated? Where the orc hordes were smashed and driven back to the North? And how did this campaign go?

And even this victory doesn't need to be the end of the campaign. I'm thinking of the five-year storyline of the SF series Babylon 5, which seemed destined to culminate in a desperate and climatic battle against a dark and overwhelming foe. Yet

Spoiler

this foe was driven away - or at least convinced to leave - early in the fourth year, and the rest of the series was spent dealing with the political aftereffects and trying to create something new from the ruins of the old age.

Even a victory against the Shadow doesn't have to end the campaign, especially if the victory was temporary and Izrador is still out there. History teaches that the Shadow always come back, but after all the pain and suffering, many - especially the humans - will be tempted to go back to their old routine and forget about the threat, while the elves and dwarves will be too weak and spent to be able to withstand another onslaught. Forging an alliance that will be ready for the next time would require an epic undertaking that is no less challenging than driving the Shadow back in the first place!


What are your thoughts?

 

[Imruphel]

The campaign I always wanted to run would have involved the world of Midnight being "reborn" when something like the horn of change from the Elric series was sounded... and then have the responsible heroes reborn as immortals in the world of Dawnforge that comes next.

 

[ruleslawyer]

To my mind, Midnight always cried out for a game-theory approach, viz. the following: In a heroic fantasy campaign, players have the idea that the thematic deck is stacked in favor of their PCs; because the PCs are the heroes of the story, and because heroic fantasy is about the triumph of the heroes over their foes, they're likely to win, sooner or later, no matter how dire the odds against them seem.

The Midnight sourcebooks, OTOH, clearly state that the PCs will be able to achieve only minor victories and will never achieve a serious or lasting defeat of the Shadow or its minions. That theme is hammered into the reader over and over again. Because of this, I think that a DM who allows the PCs to beat Izrador can genuinely surprise the PCs by allowing them to achieve an unlikely victory in the Midnight setting. Because they don't know that they may be allowed to triumph, the triumph can become all the sweeter.

In short, I'd certainly allow the PCs to achieve victory, but I'd never tell them it were possible. In fact, I don't think I'd much like a campaign in which victory were impossible; that's even lamer, IMHO, than a campaign in which victory were guaranteed.

That said, I think you have to structure the campaign so that a victory by force of arms is not possible. I am reminded of Midnight's chief literary inspiration:

"Was there ever any hope, Gandalf?"
"There never was much hope. Just a fool's hope."

"We cannot achieve victory by force of arms."

I actually conceived my Midnight campaign with a possible ending similar to the one that Imruphel proposed. One of the principal paradoxes facing Izrador's enemies is that the world of Aryth serves, to some extent, as the Shadow's prison. Even if one could breach the barriers imposed by the Sundering and seek aid from beyond, the gods would be unwilling to help, for by pulling aside the veils that separate Aryth from the realms beyond, they would be giving Izrador a chance to escape. So perhaps the only way to defeat the Shadow is to destroy or remake the world of Aryth altogether. This theme of a total or costly victory is pretty resonant with, say, Elric or Lord of the Rings (the destruction of the Ring is also the passing of magic out of Middle-Earth, and the fading of elvenkind). I think it's probably better to go down that route, which keeps the sad, elegiac quality of the setting, than to have a simple military victory, however temporary.

 

[Particle_Man]

One of the principal paradoxes facing Izrador's enemies is that the world of Aryth serves, to some extent, as the Shadow's prison. Even if one could breach the barriers imposed by the Sundering and seek aid from beyond, the gods would be unwilling to help, for by pulling aside the veils that separate Aryth from the realms beyond, they would be giving Izrador a chance to escape. So perhaps the only way to defeat the Shadow is to destroy or remake the world of Aryth altogether.

Apparently, the history of Dawnforge is that

Spoiler

it comes AFTER Midnight, where the Gods go to Defcon 5 and pretty much magically nuke the planet just to stop Izrador. Then they have to recreate everything, since magical nukage is hard on fragile mortals, like everyone else but Izrador (and even he ends up a mere "shadow" of his former self).

 

[Crothian]

In the midnight book doesn't it say that Izrador's power grows through his temples and a special light or somthing in them? I always imagined that taking out the temples was the best way to really limit the god's powers.

 

[Ry]

Huh, I never thought of that. If you can't beat 'em, cause Ragnarök.

 

[ruleslawyer]

You're referring to the Mirrors of Izrador. Destroying them is certainly the "core adventure path" set up by the designers. Of course, the effect of doing so (even of destroying the Grand Mirror) is still phrased as only a temporary setback.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Apparently, the history of Dawnforge is that

Spoiler

it comes AFTER Midnight, where the Gods go to Defcon 5 and pretty much magically nuke the planet just to stop Izrador. Then they have to recreate everything, since magical nukage is hard on fragile mortals, like everyone else but Izrador (and even he ends up a mere "shadow" of his former self).

Wow! Guess that's

Spoiler

lots of minds thinking alike.

 

[Crothian]

You're referring to the Mirrors of Izrador. Destroying them is certainly the "core adventure path" set up by the designers. Of course, the effect of doing so (even of destroying the Grand Mirror) is still phrased as only a temporary setback.

It's a start at least.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

It's a start at least.

And those who destroy them have a good chance of winding up dead - as does everyone who lives within a distance of a couple of miles...