Midnight impressions

[Merlin's Shadow]

I like the feel of Midnight, and the magic system. But there's a lot that doesn't make sense. One is coinage being outlawed and their entire economy being based upon the barter system. Despite this there are still huge cities and inn's remain open. This economy is simply impossible.

Actually, coinage is not completely outlawed. In some cities, especially in the south, coins are still used and Izrador's forces ignore it for the most part.

 

[frankthedm]

I like the feel of Midnight, and the magic system. But there's a lot that doesn't make sense. One is coinage being outlawed and their entire economy being based upon the barter system. Despite this there are still huge cities and inn's remain open. This economy is simply impossible.

Yeah, Coinage only works if the coin material is valuable or if a powerful entity backs it. Unless the Dark Lord is backing a coin or La Resistance is secretly shoring up the econemy, precious metals' only value is as a piece of jewelry making someone look pretty.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I like the feel of Midnight, and the magic system. But there's a lot that doesn't make sense. One is coinage being outlawed and their entire economy being based upon the barter system. Despite this there are still huge cities and inn's remain open. This economy is simply impossible.

I'd have to disagree.

The world's oldest known coins date back to about 610BC.

World's First Coin - Oldest Coin

In contrast, some of the first cities to crack the 100,000 population mark date back between 1600-825BC- easily centuries older:

To create a list continuous with Chandler's for this, initial period of urban formation (from about -3700, the Early Uruk period) let us consider all cities that fall within the range of 10,000 to 100,000. That seems to be the size of population within which a systemic division of labor might take firm hold. In this ancient era (-3500 to -1200; cf. Modelski and Thompson 1996), the upper limit of city populations seems to have been about 100,000, the size attained on Chandler's list only once, by Avaris, in -1600; McEvedy's first reaching of the 100,000 mark occurs in -825, at Niniveh.

The lower limit of 10,000 is about the same size criterion as McEvedy's and only slightly lower than that implied in Chandler's listings for -2250, 2000 and 1800. That would make inclusion warranted for settlements at least one order of magnitude larger than those comparable to Jericho. We aim to include all cities that meet the criterion of 10,000 but might not, of course, be able to do so due to data limitations.

https://faculty.washington.edu/modelski/WCITI2.html

Coinage makes large cities and commerce easier, but its not a prerequisite.

 

[Mkhaiwati]

I think it works well for the First Age of Middle-Earth, after the fifth(?) battle. The characters cannot kill Izrador (Morgoth, as Fingolfin found out). The baddies have overrun much of the lands with a few resistance places left (the few elf holds like the Girdle of Melian, Turgon's place, and the cavern stronghold), and the only way the pcs can win is if they break the hold Izrador has on the communications to other gods (Earinduil[sp] sailing to the West).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Good point...but you'd better make sure both you and your players are willing to play in that kind of setting. Some people don't like playing in campaigns where the BBEG is unstoppable.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

THE fansite for Midnight is:

Against the Shadow

Check it out!

 

[resistor]

I think it works well for the First Age of Middle-Earth, after the fifth(?) battle. The characters cannot kill Izrador (Morgoth, as Fingolfin found out). The baddies have overrun much of the lands with a few resistance places left (the few elf holds like the Girdle of Melian, Turgon's place, and the cavern stronghold), and the only way the pcs can win is if they break the hold Izrador has on the communications to other gods (Earinduil[sp] sailing to the West).

This is exactly how I always saw it.

To me, fighting the good fight even when it's impossible to win (and the heroes KNOW they can't win) seems much more meaningful than another the-good-guys-save-the-day story.

 

[slwoyach]

I'd have to disagree.

The world's oldest known coins date back to about 610BC.

World's First Coin - Oldest Coin

In contrast, some of the first cities to crack the 100,000 population mark date back between 1600-825BC- easily centuries older:



https://faculty.washington.edu/modelski/WCITI2.html

Coinage makes large cities and commerce easier, but its not a prerequisite.

That article takes an extremely narrow view of coinage. Currency has existed from the very beginnings of civilization, counters and ingots being used to represent large amounts of grain. If you want to highlight the difference between early currency and coinage that's fine, but the midnight campaign setting makes no such distinction. Transactions described in the campaign book take the form of paying for room and board at an inn by killing an animal and giving it to the innkeeper. This is absolutely ridiculous. A single kill can feed many people, how does the rest of the clientele pay for their meals? Do they also hunt something down and give it to the innkeeper so it can rot before being consumed? They can't all do manual work either, as their is only so much work to go around.

The economy in midnight is pretty much a dark ages economy, except it is supported by a prehistoric exchange system.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That article takes an extremely narrow view of coinage. Currency has existed from the very beginnings of civilization, counters and ingots being used to represent large amounts of grain.

True, but currency that has value seperate and distinct from its intrinsic value- say, because its made of something rare- is not a prerequisite for civilizations advanced beyond the stone age.

Things like ingots and hacksilver depend on the intrinsic value of the substance out of which they are made.

Counters, promissory notes and the like were stand-ins for large/bulky and generally immovable items of value. They worked like transfers of title, but were not true currency.

True currencies have attributes that charge them with value beyond their components. A Roman coin might have more value than an Indian coin of the same era because of Rome's political stability and the general purity of the metals the coins were made of (making them a known quantity to moneychangers). In addition, an otherwise valuable currency may be virtually worthless if it has an image on it that is held in political disfavor- a heretical fallen theocrat, an overthrown dynasty, etc.

A single kill can feed many people, how does the rest of the clientele pay for their meals? Do they also hunt something down and give it to the innkeeper so it can rot before being consumed? They can't all do manual work either, as their is only so much work to go around.

A promise, an IOU, or anything the 2 people agree as being of value could be the basis for the exchange that results in the client getting fed. Dude X gets fed because his barley harvest in 3 months will be used by the innkeeper to make soup for 9 months after that. Dude Z gets fed because he saved the inkeeper's only son from the river 2 years ago.

IOW, whatever works.

Consider that even today, there are wilder parts of Alaska and Canada in which checks that cannot be redeemed by any bank- they're decades old, and some of the banks and some of the signatories are dead- are used as promissory notes.

 

[pawsplay]

The economy in midnight is pretty much a dark ages economy, except it is supported by a prehistoric exchange system.

I think you mean a dark ages economy supported by a dark ages exchange system. Among the many disruptions of the fall of the Roman Empire was the end of standardized coinage.