D&D 4E Midnight with 4e

[Yair]

I'm thinking about the campaign I want to run when 4e comes around, and a Midnight campaign is appealing to me. However, I'd like my first 4e campaign to really embrace 4e so I can check it out, and I'm having trouble fitting Midnight in with the full range of 4e mechanics. I've just abotu given up - it doesn't seem like Midnight can embrace all of 4e. I am looking for conversion ideas proving me wrong

My current thoughts are to make the Dorn be Dragonborn and Sarcosans be Tieflings, leaving only Erenlanders as Human. Oust the Gnomes, replacing them with Halflings (and probably remove most other halflings from the setting). Let the Elves be Elves (Snow, Jungle, Wood - all), reserving the Eladrin for "nobility" elves (like the Queen). Dwarfs describe both Clan and Kurgun dwarfs. Erase all other races (wildlings, half-orcs, and so on) from the setting. This would be a major overhaul to some of the setting, but I think it's a relatively light change that doesn't touch the heart of the setting. I'm having a problem fitting in the Half-Elves though; I think working them in as diplomats for the Queen works best, but this creates yet another Elven race.... on the other hand, I don't see how come half-elves would make sense as being half-human hybrids in Midnight.

The real problem is the Cleric and Paladin classes. These draw heavily on Divine power, and os seem suited only to the Shadow. This is a major problem for me, as I want the PCs to be able to access them (and any other element of the rules).

So my current idea is to just have no (Good-side) Clerics, Paladins, or Half-Elves - but I'm not at all sure I'm pleased with that.

 

[Quartz]

Since divine spellcasters are absolutely blocked in Midnight, you're on a loser. How about Dragonlance instead? The Dragonborn can be the offspring of the Draconians, and the rest fit in fairly easily.

 

[smathis]

So my current idea is to just have no (Good-side) Clerics, Paladins, or Half-Elves - but I'm not at all sure I'm pleased with that.

I like the idea of Dragonborn = Dorn, Sarcosan = Tiefling. Based on what we know, you'd probably have to flip-flop Gnomes and Halflings. In 4e, Halflings are river, swamp folk and Gnomes are near-feral creatures that live in the woods.

As far as Half-Elves, I don't see why they couldn't be in Midnight. I mean, the setting as written had things like Half-Orc/Half-Dwarf. The idea of a Half-Elf is no more or less outlandish.

If you're really having a hard time with Half-Elves, make them one of the Elven subraces, like the Snow Elves or the Sea Elves. I'd make the Caransil into Eladrin.

As far as Clerics or Paladins, Midnight does have (sort of) Clerics in the form of Channelers who rely on Wisdom to cast spells. I believe they're called Spiritualists? They're in Midnight 2e, though. Basically, you change the flavor of the Cleric to a Channeler who relies on his own force of will and belief to cast divine-ish spells.

Beyond that, there's room for Elven characters as Paladins or Clerics in the service of the Elven Queen. She's only one step below a god in the setting anyway.

I've said on other forums, I'd probably use the Shadar-Kai for the Legates. Easy enough to do and the flavor of their abilities fits, I think.

Good ideas, though. Midnight is one of my favorite 3e settings. I actually think it will be easier to do an inspiring game of Midnight in 4e than 3e. But my tastes always leaned towards epic adventure in the setting as opposed to grim survival.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I think my main concern about using 4e for a Midnight conversion is that it will lose some of its flavor.

Healing surges and encounter and daily powers might result in a less fear of combat that was clearly a part of my Midnight games. As smathis said, it could lead to a great inspriational game, but I'm not sure if I would feel like it was Midnight anymore.

 

[Warbringer]

Really, while the good gods are in theory blocked by Iuz there is really no reason some of their power isn't finding its way through to certain heroes.

Play divine magic is treated as 4 levels higher for sensing by legates and off you go. Of course, stories of divine magic are going to attract the powers to the party, like a bright light burning in the darkness.

Just make gnomes a version of halflings and off we go...

 

[crash_beedo]

I agree a setting like Midnight seems to be ideal for 4E.

I may not try to map it as closely to the Midnight Core setting. For instance, the 4E approach to deities seems to be that they're aloof and uninvolved in the world; in that case it may be enough to still allow some PC clerics/paladins, and have Izrador be something other than a deity... more like Iuz in Greyhawk, or Sauron in ME - a demigod or demon with both feet on the ground while the gods themselves are removed and only work through proxies. I'm trying to figure out how to keep the core classes in place for PC's without having to create all new core classes on day one.

You could also do a Dragonlance type approach where there were no clerics or paladins before the PC's came along... the gods were forgotten, and only the worship of Izrador granted power to clerics, at least before the campaign started.

As for the races... Dragonborn and Tieflings seem to have marginal population sizes. Dragonborn could be isolated to one of the mountainous areas and Tieflings could trace their roots back to the demon-haunted jungles (which in this case, become devil-haunted ruins instead). I like mixing the Tieflings in with the Sarcosans and having Dragonborn mixed in with the Dorn or side-by-side the Dwarves of the Kaladruns.

 

[malcolm_n]

I happen to be a major fan of the setting myself. One of the key aspects of the setting was that it took what it wanted from the core rules and left the rest for story flavor. There's no reason to change the entire backdrop of the setting to fit 4e; make 4e fit the setting instead.
For example, Dragonborn and Tieflings in 4e are kinda rivals. In Midnight, we could forward the timeline like 10+ years. The queen has had a group of adventurers on an expedition to find a long sleeping race of dragonmen to help fight against the shadow. To counter this, Izrador has bred some of the demons he's bound with his higher ranking legates and thus created the tieflings. Tieflings don't have to work for the shadow, but they have a similar function to gnomes in the setting. Most legates believe them to be on their side, so they can get around easily enough and make great saboteurs.

Gnomes don't have to lose flavor or go away. Just look at their stats and adjust accordingly for 4e. Most Midnight characters are +1 level adjustment anyway, so I could really see leaving them alone. If nothing else, swap their -2 Str for +2 Int since they're such good travelers of the waterways and cartographers.

Half-elves are easily explained; they are born of the humans who've had to stay with the elves in their fight against Izrador. And Orcs will likely have a racial writeup in the MM (just not a complete one). If you keep in touch, I'll very well writeup Dworgs and Elflings when we get more phb race info.

*Classes*

The Channeler in Midnight replaces the Wizard and the Cleric. The warlock is a great fit as a pact maker. Warlocks could make pacts with Demons, Fey and the Stars just fine; but the flavor for "the stars" would probably better fall in line with a pact with Izrador for magic, like the legates.
Speaking of which, Legates could easily be written up as a 30 level class with their own brand of Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies for PC's (if you're playing on shadow's side) or would mostly be NPC Class status (they'd be leader/controllers.)

* Heroic Paths *
I'd leave heroic paths as they are with 20 level progressions and make appropriate changes based on rules. At 21st level, your epic destiny would tie into your heroic path somehow and expand upon it from there.

BTW, if anybody is interested in a 4e Midnight campaign, I'll definitely be running one on DDI when I get my books converted. Let me know.

 

[D'karr]

I think my main concern about using 4e for a Midnight conversion is that it will lose some of its flavor.

Healing surges and encounter and daily powers might result in a less fear of combat that was clearly a part of my Midnight games. As smathis said, it could lead to a great inspriational game, but I'm not sure if I would feel like it was Midnight anymore.

I don't know but in 6 playtest games that I've run and two that I've played in the lethality was as much if not more than in 3.x. I'm thinking that if you balance the encounters according to guidlines you should still see the heroes kicking ass and taking names with what would be considered easy encounters. They should still struggle with tougher ones.

 

[malcolm_n]

I think my main concern about using 4e for a Midnight conversion is that it will lose some of its flavor.

Healing surges and encounter and daily powers might result in a less fear of combat that was clearly a part of my Midnight games. As smathis said, it could lead to a great inspriational game, but I'm not sure if I would feel like it was Midnight anymore.

healing surges aren't the same as healing magic. They're when the character takes a step back and says, "you can do this" and pushes forward. That is very much in the flavor of midnight. As to encounter/dailies, Those are just a way to explain your capabilities. There is still plenty of threat to counter them in that you have to decide when it's appropriate to use them during the fight. If anything, with the danger of the Midnight setting, this'd make them even harder to say when to use; since you may be fighting a warband of orcs now, but that legate could be right over the hill.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

healing surges aren't the same as healing magic. They're when the character takes a step back and says, "you can do this" and pushes forward. That is very much in the flavor of midnight. As to encounter/dailies, Those are just a way to explain your capabilities. There is still plenty of threat to counter them in that you have to decide when it's appropriate to use them during the fight. If anything, with the danger of the Midnight setting, this'd make them even harder to say when to use; since you may be fighting a warband of orcs now, but that legate could be right over the hill.

I realize they aren't the same, but one of the hallmarks of the Midnight games I had was the idea that a getting hurt was a really bad thing since there wasn't much healing to be had. It took days to recover from significant hit point loss. It resulted in a game where the players tended to try and avoid combat unless they either had a clear advantage, or they just had no choice. I liked the tension it added as they tried to decide whether something was worth fighting or avoiding.

Maybe just limiting the healing surges a little would still allow for a feeling of desperation, while the encounter and daily powers would allow the players to be truly heroic in a fight.