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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6369625" data-attributes="member: 87792">This is the opposite of true.&nbsp; Kids today have access to sandboxes that will crush&nbsp; D&amp;D sandboxes.&nbsp; First the computer doesn't care.&nbsp; It can't be&nbsp; whined at, it can't be cajoled.&nbsp; Second there's far more in a computer&nbsp; sandbox world than any one DM would ever have prepared - or can keep up&nbsp; with.&nbsp; Mass Effect 1 is a better sandbox than the Isle of Dread.&nbsp; (Not&nbsp; that either of them are great sandboxes tbh).&nbsp; Skyrim beats out even&nbsp; Harn.&nbsp; The best sandbox in the history of any form of RPG is Eve Online.It's not the kids who have unlearning to do.&nbsp; Adults need to learn from the sources the kids are.[Citation Needed]The biggest edition in history was BECMI, followed by 1e.&nbsp; Welcome&nbsp; to early D&amp;D where the game was one of pure player skill and the&nbsp; concept of making decisions that weren't the best you could see was ...&nbsp; weird.Tell it to&nbsp; Wrex.&nbsp; Oh wait.&nbsp; You can't.&nbsp; I shot him on Virimire.&nbsp; Or tell it to Tali&nbsp; - assuming she survived both the Suicide Mission and Rannoch.&nbsp; Mass&nbsp; Effect is basically an adventure path, with ME1 being fairly hex-crawly&nbsp; with half a dozen dungeons you need to find McGuffins in, and Mass&nbsp; Effect 3 being extremely heavily railroaded (and the less I say about&nbsp; the Starchild and the ending the better).Which makes it different from Dinosaur Island/Isle of Dread how exactly?The NPCs react to the way you approach them as far as I know in all&nbsp; Bioware games.&nbsp; Your character isn't merely an alignment you write down&nbsp; on your character sheet, it grows over time.&nbsp; (And I play the Sheps&nbsp; differently simply because they have different voice actors).This is absurd.Or as my tabletop group calls it &quot;Neutral/Pragmatic&quot;.&nbsp; The concept of greyhawking rooms didn't come from the&nbsp; CRPG world.And that's a wtf as far as I'm concerned.&nbsp; If my actions don't affect the game world I'll find another CRPG.Yes.&nbsp;&nbsp; But it's not unlearning by the kids. The kids need to learn one thing.&nbsp;&nbsp; RPGs came out of Tabletop Wargaming and people wanting to do things&nbsp; that the designers hadn't planned on.And you're saying 9 point alignment does implement the character?&nbsp; Or that character is what you do - in which case you do that too in CRPGs.Or you can e.g. break the diplomacy rules and resolve everything using dice.Stats are not inherent to the roleplaying experience and nor are&nbsp; abilities. Some of the best RPGs I've played have been freeform LARPS.&nbsp;&nbsp; Character derived outcomes?&nbsp; Consequence from action?&nbsp; If there isn't a&nbsp; common ground there it's because D&amp;D is light on them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6369625, member: 87792"] This is the opposite of true. Kids today have access to sandboxes that will [I]crush[/I] D&D sandboxes. First the computer doesn't care. It can't be whined at, it can't be cajoled. Second there's far more in a computer sandbox world than any one DM would ever have prepared - or can keep up with. Mass Effect 1 is a better sandbox than the Isle of Dread. (Not that either of them are great sandboxes tbh). Skyrim beats out even Harn. The best sandbox in the history of any form of RPG is Eve Online. It's not the kids who have unlearning to do. Adults need to learn from the sources the kids are. [Citation Needed] The biggest edition in history was BECMI, followed by 1e. Welcome to early D&D where the game was one of pure player skill and the concept of making decisions that weren't the best you could see was ... weird. Tell it to Wrex. Oh wait. You can't. I shot him on Virimire. Or tell it to Tali - assuming she survived both the Suicide Mission and Rannoch. Mass Effect is basically an adventure path, with ME1 being fairly hex-crawly with half a dozen dungeons you need to find McGuffins in, and Mass Effect 3 being extremely heavily railroaded (and the less I say about the Starchild and the ending the better). Which makes it different from Dinosaur Island/Isle of Dread how exactly? The NPCs react to the way you approach them as far as I know in [I]all[/I] Bioware games. Your character isn't merely an alignment you write down on your character sheet, it grows over time. (And I play the Sheps differently simply because they have different voice actors). This is absurd. Or as my tabletop group calls it "Neutral/Pragmatic". The concept of greyhawking rooms didn't come from the CRPG world. And that's a wtf as far as I'm concerned. If my actions don't affect the game world I'll find another CRPG. Yes. But it's not unlearning by the kids. The kids need to learn one thing. RPGs came out of Tabletop Wargaming and people wanting to do things that the designers hadn't planned on. And you're saying 9 point alignment [I]does[/I] implement the character? Or that character is what you do - in which case you do that too in CRPGs. Or you can e.g. break the diplomacy rules and resolve everything using dice. Stats are not inherent to the roleplaying experience and nor are abilities. Some of the best RPGs I've played have been freeform LARPS. Character derived outcomes? Consequence from action? If there isn't a common ground there it's because D&D is light on them. [/QUOTE]

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