Mike Mearls' Monster Makeover Suggestions HERE
- Thread starter Nyaricus
- Start date
Jefe Bergenstein
Legend
Will-o-wisp - for when you want to reboot your campaign with a CR 6 monster. Touch AC of 29 (30 against their dodge target), +16 melee touch for 2d8 damage, +13 to initiative, 50' perfect fly speed, naturally invisible, and get this... immune to magic except magic missile and maze (which we all know 6th level parties are packing). So, the mage tries to pop off the 2-3 magic missiles he has memorized (assuming he can see it) before it ravages him while the rest of the party runs. Stop your grinnin', drop your linen and bend over when this behemoth comes knocking. If you pull out the win, pat yourself on the back, cus thats all you're getting from this guy... his treasure is much less than other CR 6's.
Remorhaz might deserve another look, since they arent well designed. So let me get this straight... this critter is SO friggin hot touching it deals *4 TIMES* more damage (8d6)than sticking your hand in lava, but its bite attack doesnt deal any heat damage and it doesnt have any fire immunity? And it lives in cold areas? What happens when a remorhaz gets pissy on a glacier? Cuz I wanna know how deep it sinks per round. Lets not forget the DC 18 save to avoid destruction on any weapon hitting it. Pretty harsh for a CR 7 beast. The entire thing just seems like something that was randomly concocted one night after too much beer and not enough pretzels.
Undead as a type get my vote as well. Bad BAB, no Con bonus causes them to have super high HD for their CR. Making turn undead more and more useless as you go up in level. Granting a better attack bonus and giving corporeal undead HP bonus similar to constructs, and incorporeal undead HP based on Cha might fix this.
Remorhaz might deserve another look, since they arent well designed. So let me get this straight... this critter is SO friggin hot touching it deals *4 TIMES* more damage (8d6)than sticking your hand in lava, but its bite attack doesnt deal any heat damage and it doesnt have any fire immunity? And it lives in cold areas? What happens when a remorhaz gets pissy on a glacier? Cuz I wanna know how deep it sinks per round. Lets not forget the DC 18 save to avoid destruction on any weapon hitting it. Pretty harsh for a CR 7 beast. The entire thing just seems like something that was randomly concocted one night after too much beer and not enough pretzels.
Undead as a type get my vote as well. Bad BAB, no Con bonus causes them to have super high HD for their CR. Making turn undead more and more useless as you go up in level. Granting a better attack bonus and giving corporeal undead HP bonus similar to constructs, and incorporeal undead HP based on Cha might fix this.
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Nyaricus
First Post
Hussar, check out a book entitled Giants, Monsters and Dragons by Carol Rose (published by W.W. Norton and Company). It's a great little encyclopedia of monstyers from around the world, and details the Gorgon 
To clear it up: The D&D bull-gorgon was, in RL, originally called the Catobleapas, which menas "that which looks downward" in Greek and was described by Pliny the Elder. It had a heavy head with an enormously long and thin neck, and Pliny considered this to be good for any human who looked it in the eyes was thought to automatically drop dead. It was said to inhabit the wastes in Ethiopia and Southern Egypt. Descripions of it were many in travelers account and in early medieval bestiaries, and described it having the head of a pig and a scrawny black body. By the 17th century, it's description had been changed completely; Edward Topsell described it as having the scales and wings of a dragon, gigantic teeth, and hands instead of paws or hooves - oh, and called it a Gorgon, creating the discrepency. Gustave Flaubert, a French author, was so enthralled by this terrifying desrciption that he immortalized it in his work La Tenation de St. Antonie (1874), which many be the 19th century work that Imruphel is referring to.
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Other than that: I wish that Dire animals were a template; I can't understand why they aren't!
To clear it up: The D&D bull-gorgon was, in RL, originally called the Catobleapas, which menas "that which looks downward" in Greek and was described by Pliny the Elder. It had a heavy head with an enormously long and thin neck, and Pliny considered this to be good for any human who looked it in the eyes was thought to automatically drop dead. It was said to inhabit the wastes in Ethiopia and Southern Egypt. Descripions of it were many in travelers account and in early medieval bestiaries, and described it having the head of a pig and a scrawny black body. By the 17th century, it's description had been changed completely; Edward Topsell described it as having the scales and wings of a dragon, gigantic teeth, and hands instead of paws or hooves - oh, and called it a Gorgon, creating the discrepency. Gustave Flaubert, a French author, was so enthralled by this terrifying desrciption that he immortalized it in his work La Tenation de St. Antonie (1874), which many be the 19th century work that Imruphel is referring to.
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Other than that: I wish that Dire animals were a template; I can't understand why they aren't!
Joshua Randall
Legend
Except in this case it is turn undead that is a bad rule, and not undead as a creature type. But anyway....ehren37 said:
Apparently there is a prehistoric gorgon creature from Africa. But it sounds like it would look more like a scaled lion than the metallic bull in D&D.
http://www.artsci.washington.edu/newsletter/Winter99/behold.html
http://www.artsci.washington.edu/newsletter/Winter99/behold.html
I am pretty sure there was a "gorgon" like golem in mythology on minos in crete. The king sculpted a metal bull and injected it with blood to give it life. I am not sure where I got this from, But I remember reading it somewhere, perhaps in a book on the minoan civilization. I even think it had deadly breathe.
Perhaps that is where the D&D gorgon comes from.
Perhaps that is where the D&D gorgon comes from.
Shade
Monster Junkie
Nyaricus said:Another thing is I'd start convert all the undead monsters to templates; they don't make sense any other way adn 3.5's change to making zombies and skeletons templates was a good start, but there are others needin' some love (Bodak, I am looking at you - and not just for that reason, you little death-gazing-bugger you)
Good call, with the exception of the wee few (nightshades, hullathoins, etc.) that don't seem to be based off any particular base creature.
Also, I'd retcon a number of the pre-Libris Mortis and MMIII to have Unholy Toughness so that they don't pale in comparison to the later undead. Not all of 'em, but the death knight and lich and other "powerful" undead, for example.
demiurge1138
Inventor of Super-Toast
Both the bodak and the vampire could, and should, get a Monstrous Makeover. I agree that the will-o-wisp is also over-the-top for its CR. The remorhaz could also use a bit of tweaking, as well. And, urgh, harpies. Harpies are no fun for anyone.
I'm not a fan of making all undead templates, personally. For those who like that sort of thing, the Advanced Bestiary from Green Ronin has "dread undead" templates for all the MM undead, and there were a few Dragon articles in the early 300s that also filled this niche. I don't think it needs to be done again.
Oh, and Nyarcius, to you original, more homebrew-y complaint... I give bugbears Powerful Build, as half-giants and goliaths. They're seven feet tall - that's not Large, that's just Medium +. Also helps justify their level adjustment, in my eyes.
Demiurge out.
I'm not a fan of making all undead templates, personally. For those who like that sort of thing, the Advanced Bestiary from Green Ronin has "dread undead" templates for all the MM undead, and there were a few Dragon articles in the early 300s that also filled this niche. I don't think it needs to be done again.
Oh, and Nyarcius, to you original, more homebrew-y complaint... I give bugbears Powerful Build, as half-giants and goliaths. They're seven feet tall - that's not Large, that's just Medium +. Also helps justify their level adjustment, in my eyes.
Demiurge out.
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
DMH said:
Nyaricus said:
Actually, the catoblepas was in the original 1e Monster Manual, as was the gorgon. Both were separate monsters. The catoblepas as you describe it was in the 1e MM.
Gygax has said, right in one of his Q&A threads on this board, that the D&D gorgon is based on a critter from medieval heraldry:
Col_Pladoh said:The scale-mailed bull model of a gorgon came directly from a copy of a medieval bestiary, the title of which I do not recall, but it was and probably still is in the local (Lake Geneva) public library. I was happy to use that model, for it added another fearsome monster to the roster for DM use
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