Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
That's some pretty creative thinking there, Garth!
Thanks
That's some pretty creative thinking there, Garth!
It's just not going to happen. What will actually happen is that the player will say, "I want to wrestle Death" and the DM will say, "You got a magic item for that? No? Sorry, you can't."
Frankly it would be easier to just get a good DM then trying to rules lawyer a bad DM into throwing some crumbs.
I believe we arent talking about good vs bad dms I mentioned earlier when it was brought up that I think balancing the non-combat abilities of paragon and epic heroes with those explicitly defined ones given to casters is not something trivial that one is going to be able to do easily without having recommendations and guidelines nor do I really think a paragraph in the DMG counts... without something more.
4e didnt even have if fully functional in my opinion so bringing up that fact just has me shrug and say yes we can do better but 5e didnt.
They need something written down that they can point to so that they get to do "the fun thing" whatever that may be. So they dont have to play the "Sir, may I?" game. And I do sympathise.
Gygax talked bout it honestly it isnt a new thing to pay attention to the workday it is introduced by having different characters having different scaled resources. (long rest - dailies whatever)
In 4e it hardly mattered what workday you had Wizards were still the best Dailies but only by a small amount everyone if the day was known to be short could pull out bigger guns. In 5e its back.
I am curious about this. Those are really sound like they might be corner cases - we have a lot of character classes out now and none of those were phb. <...> Bards can be so incredibly variable could you elaborate?
On (1), one way to systematize it would be to mechanically gate every spell that is cast by an Intelligence (Arcana), Wisdom (Religion), Charisma (Perform), maybe Constitution (Endurance).
Depending on how it’s subsequently systematized, there could be a few different emergent properties. One approach could be a success let’s you cast the spell normally, a success with a cost/Complication means you get your spell, but you have to throttle back it’s effects or take disadvantage on your next spell cast or lose HP/HD or something, a hard failure could be a roll on a thematic surge table that mostly brings adverse effects upon the fiction; a gate to the Far Realm is opened, a Fire Elemental is summoned on the grounds of a nearby township where roads and roofs are made of dry thatch, your arm briefly transmutes to a viper (attacking you initially, but allowing you to attempt to control it and use it as a weapon until x duration, but closing out spellcasting for that duration), etc.
I invoked “non-combatant action resolution”, because that is the classic site of play where parity of archetype contribution is most frustrated.
Such an approach would (a) mitigate that lack of parity and (b) satisfy the verisimilitude or realism contingent that are always frustrated with the absurdities of player fiat over the supernatural (in the way of no action resolution for the mundane component of conjuring these otherworldly effects) in the same way that they’re preoccupied by martial heroes’ vertical jump and chin-up output (yes, that was a joke...they belabor the latter and utterly disregard the former).
On (2), I agree. Care (in maths, in output, and in dealing with the compound probabilities that martial characters have long suffered from in non-combatant action resolution that doesn’t entail certain techniques, such as Fail Forward, and/or conflict resolution subsystems) must be taken for sure.
I think having things written down also can inspire good DMs or teach ones that need experience
Sure it wasn't ignored in the design I am saying it was not problematic in play AND milestones were actually to allow people to have longer days if they wanted so basically those and encounter powers allowed how many encounters in a day could be more driven by the narrative and not as much by the daily resource anyway that is how I see it. It allowed you to have spikes in ability.Yeah, I guess I should say I don't think it's as big an issue as people think, but resource management is always an issue given the game design and it's an issue with really varying classes' need for resources.
The whole "milestone" mechanic was obviously there to encourage longer workdays so I'd say WotC was worried about it then, too.
Bards were problematic due to their propensity to act off-turn, at least in the original version (not the Skald rebuild). Off-turn actions really mess up other people's turns and lead to a lot of confusion.
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