D&D 4E Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked

[MwaO]

Are they optional? Do they provide a power boost that is necessary for the higher levels? From what I remember the books presented them as a non-optional part of character advancement.

Page 27 of PHB "If you just reached 11th or 21st level, you have some exciting decisions to make—you can choose a paragon path or an epic destiny…"

Not "you choose a paragon path or an epic destiny…" or "you must choose a paragon path or an epic destiny…"

Now, not sure why anyone doesn't pick as they're free stuff. But there's no requirement to must take them. And DMs in 4e, unlike the common refrain, have just as much power as they do in every other edition to put their foot down and say, "Hey, everyone does this." — you want everyone to take Destined Scion to keep things simple and more martially for the martials? You can do that. 4e literally just suggests you explain your reasoning and try to get buy-in, so people don't find out too late to make decisions or get attached to something you'd rather them not take and then have your game blow up.

Page 189, DMG: "You have the authority to do whatever you want with the game, but your efforts won’t help if you have no group."

 

[MwaO]

How do you figure?

One ability makes you literally climb faster and jump farther. The other says you need a specific ability to attempt a task, that prior to an ability being written could theoretically be attempted by anyone.

Question
Would you let a rogue player use a quarterstaff to pole vault as an improvised move?
Would you still let that same rogue do so if a monk ability granted you the ability to pole vault? How about a feat?
If yes, what is the benefit of taking that subclass or feat or you can just gain the benefit for free?

Usually, most options tend to grant automatic success or better than what a skill provides. Good description is a +2 to a check at DM's discretion.

So Rogue improvising with a Quarterstaff to pole vault sounds like a straight up +2 to an Athletics skill check to jump. Maybe throw something special in there the first time they do it, but let the player know it is a one time thing after the game. Such as they can spend an utility or attack power to boost the jump by some amount.

 

[Imaro]

Page 27 of PHB "If you just reached 11th or 21st level, you have some exciting decisions to make—you can choose a paragon path or an epic destiny…"

Not "you choose a paragon path or an epic destiny…" or "you must choose a paragon path or an epic destiny…"

Now, not sure why anyone doesn't pick as they're free stuff. But there's no requirement to must take them. And DMs in 4e, unlike the common refrain, have just as much power as they do in every other edition to put their foot down and say, "Hey, everyone does this." — you want everyone to take Destined Scion to keep things simple and more martially for the martials? You can do that. 4e literally just suggests you explain your reasoning and try to get buy-in, so people don't find out too late to make decisions or get attached to something you'd rather them not take and then have your game blow up.

Page 189, DMG: "You have the authority to do whatever you want with the game, but your efforts won’t help if you have no group."

Isn't that just stating that at the given level you "can" choose one (i.e. it's an allowed choice) whereas any other level you can't (thus why it states you have, not you may have, some important decisions to make)? You're really stretching it if your argument that paragon paths and epic destinies are optional relies on citing that phrase.

Also I'm not arguing against rule zero.

 

[Imaro]

@Manbearcat has already pointed out that the words are the same.

What are the superheroic capabilities of a 17th level fighter in 5e?

re-read what I posted earlier... Epic for 5e (in 4e terms) is play at 20th level and beyond.

 

[Shasarak]

Page 27 of PHB "If you just reached 11th or 21st level, you have some exciting decisions to make—you can choose a paragon path or an epic destiny…"

Not "you choose a paragon path or an epic destiny…" or "you must choose a paragon path or an epic destiny…"

If you just reached 11th or 21st level, you have some
exciting decisions to make—you can choose a paragon
path or an epic destiny, both of which are described in
Chapter 4. Make that choice, and make a note of the
new power or feature you gain.

When I read that paragraph then I do not imagine that it is asking me to choose a Paragon Path if I wanted to and on the other hand I am not a native American speaker.

 

[MwaO]

Isn't that just stating that at the given level you "can" choose one (i.e. it's an allowed choice) whereas any other level you can't (thus why it states you have, not you may have, some important decisions to make)?

How is this? Page 172 of PHB:
"If you don’t choose an epic destiny at 21st level, you can choose one at any level thereafter."

 

[Imaro]

How is this? Page 172 of PHB:
"If you don’t choose an epic destiny at 21st level, you can choose one at any level thereafter."

Still doesn't seem to indicate that it's an optional thing... and I'm sorry but after the chop job you did on the first post I would want to read this in context.

EDIT: Looking over the essentials books it's stated that at 21st level you select an epic destiny.

 

[MwaO]

Still doesn't seem to indicate that it's an optional thing... and I'm sorry but after the chop job you did on the first post I would want to read this in context.

What part of "If you don't choose" something makes it sound compelled? You have the page number, feel free to look it up...

 

[Imaro]

What part of "If you don't choose" something makes it sound compelled? You have the page number, feel free to look it up...

I'm saying letting you choose something later has no bearing on whether choosing it is mandatory or not (or whether having it or not having it creates a power imbalance). I don't have the old PHB but I do have Essentials and since Essentials is the most current iteration of the 4e rules and it states that you choose an epic destiny at 21st level... I'm looking at them as mandatory and chosen at 21st level.

 

[Parmandur]

[MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] has already pointed out that the words are the same.

What are the superheroic capabilities of a 17th level fighter in 5e?

At 17th level, the Fighter gains a second action sugeand a third use of Indominitable. Getting off 12 arrows in 12 seconds is pretty superheroic.

For that Tier, the Basic Champion gets "At 18th level, you regain hit points equal to 5 + your Constitution modifier at the start of each of your turns, as long as you have less than half your maximum hit points left. You don't gain this benefit if you have 0 hit points."

So, becomes the Wolverine or Deadpool.