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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Mike Mearls on how D&D 4E could have looked
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<blockquote data-quote="Cergorach" data-source="post: 7763340" data-attributes="member: 725"><p>Sorry, but then you have a bad player/DM mesh. "I want to do X." or "Can I do Y?" are very common, most often because the player doesn't know the specific rules for the action or doesn't know how realistic an action is to perform. With systems like Shadowrun where most actions are codified this still happened. With systems like Vampire/Mage where many powers are very open ended this also happened. How creative a player is depends on the player, not the rules system. But as a creative player myself, I find a more open ended rules system like Mage (and to a lesser degree Vampire) more conducive to creativity. As a person, I like codified rules systems like Shadowrun or 4E Mechanically, but as a DM there are quite often far too many rules I can't all remember, that is especially bothersome when there are quite a few people that know those books inside out and some are rules lawyers. Having to often refer to the rules for subsystem X/Y/Z is bothersome and really messes with the flow of the game, the game session, takes too much time and generally has a negative impact on my gaming group.</p><p></p><p>Now you can rag on 2E all you want, but not having rules for everything makes things harder for some things and less hard for others. The problem is that not even codified rules sets have rules for every action, you want to do something cool, but very cinematic, people who are used to the rules say "Can't do that." Why? "Because it isn't in the rules.". Now, these are extremes, but I've seen both.</p><p></p><p>If 4E works for your group, great, happy you found something that fit with your gaming style. The problem I see is that quite often there is only one guy/Grl in the group with which this works and maybe 1-2 that can work with it (for a time), the rest doesn't and hates it. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone. Of course there are groups that all love this or all hate this. But sales and the market strongly indicated that 4E wasn't a success for D&D and that Pathfinder was a better course for sales, 5E changed direction dramatically as a result.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cergorach, post: 7763340, member: 725"] Sorry, but then you have a bad player/DM mesh. "I want to do X." or "Can I do Y?" are very common, most often because the player doesn't know the specific rules for the action or doesn't know how realistic an action is to perform. With systems like Shadowrun where most actions are codified this still happened. With systems like Vampire/Mage where many powers are very open ended this also happened. How creative a player is depends on the player, not the rules system. But as a creative player myself, I find a more open ended rules system like Mage (and to a lesser degree Vampire) more conducive to creativity. As a person, I like codified rules systems like Shadowrun or 4E Mechanically, but as a DM there are quite often far too many rules I can't all remember, that is especially bothersome when there are quite a few people that know those books inside out and some are rules lawyers. Having to often refer to the rules for subsystem X/Y/Z is bothersome and really messes with the flow of the game, the game session, takes too much time and generally has a negative impact on my gaming group. Now you can rag on 2E all you want, but not having rules for everything makes things harder for some things and less hard for others. The problem is that not even codified rules sets have rules for every action, you want to do something cool, but very cinematic, people who are used to the rules say "Can't do that." Why? "Because it isn't in the rules.". Now, these are extremes, but I've seen both. If 4E works for your group, great, happy you found something that fit with your gaming style. The problem I see is that quite often there is only one guy/Grl in the group with which this works and maybe 1-2 that can work with it (for a time), the rest doesn't and hates it. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone. Of course there are groups that all love this or all hate this. But sales and the market strongly indicated that 4E wasn't a success for D&D and that Pathfinder was a better course for sales, 5E changed direction dramatically as a result. [/QUOTE]
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