D&D General Mike Mearls says control spells are ruining 5th Edition

[THEMNGMNT]

Okay, that's not exactly what @mearls said. But here's an excerpt from the latest post on his Patreon.

Legendary resistance is a cheap hack, jammed into 5e because we didn't have a better solution to the broken control spells that we had to include in the game for tradition's sake.

How's that for an intro?

As incendiary as the statement might be, it's fundamentally true. D&D changed over the years, but its content remained the same. The spells that give DMs headaches today had counters in AD&D when they were first released. As the game shifted over time, those spells retained their core functionality while monsters lost their defenses against them.

It's an interesting post and worth a complete read.

What's your opinion on control spells and legendary resistance?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

What's your opinion on control spells and legendary resistance?

We'll see if his hot take stands up to a few rounds of Suggestion and Modify Memory.

 

[Weiley31]

Ever since Mearls said stuff like this and how Boss Monsters keep on dying, it's been nothing but chaos on. EnWorld.

 

[Horwath]

well, maybe if damage spells did actually decent damage, people would use CC spell less often...

 

[Zardnaar]

Fix was in 4E and pre 3E.

Scaling defenses.

How in the 9 hells of Baator did they miss that one?

I generally like what Mike writes about but sheesh.

Probably cant remove them because tradition but have saves scale faster than DCs.

Make spellcasters debuff to land them or revert to direct damage or buffing instead.

Depends on a few things. Vs hold monster
2E T-Rex. Saves 75% of the time.
5E Trex. Fails 75% of the time.

Approximately.

Tradition? 3E was the odd one out. When they designed 5E.

 

[Stormonu]

Yeah, Mearls is just wrong.

But I tend to play enchanters anyways, so I just hate how 5E has mauled hold person, charm person and the like anyways.

 

[TiQuinn]

I think it’s overblown. Magic resistance in 2e was a worse shutdown of character abilities to my mind. In 5e, those legendary resistances may seem bad but you are gaining ground on the monster in question. They only have a limited supply of those resistances. The spell resistance is static - it’s always there in 2e. Plus it was never just a fighter, or a just a thief or just a cleric that comprised a party. In my experience, players gravitated to multi class characters as a means of breaking away from the lock-in of character class abilities. Spell resistances also impact effects from wands, scrolls, staves and the like.

I don’t mind different approaches but I disagree that “legendary resistances are bogus.” So go build your better mousetrap, Mike, but let’s not forget who built the first one, too.

 

[Leatherhead]

Yes, Legendary resistance is an unfun hack. But the fix was already in WotC's arsenal: The Condition Track from SW:SE.

 

[Mort]

Okay, that's not exactly what @mearls said. But here's an excerpt from the latest post on his Patreon.

Legendary resistance is a cheap hack, jammed into 5e because we didn't have a better solution to the broken control spells that we had to include in the game for tradition's sake.

How's that for an intro?

As incendiary as the statement might be, it's fundamentally true. D&D changed over the years, but its content remained the same. The spells that give DMs headaches today had counters in AD&D when they were first released. As the game shifted over time, those spells retained their core functionality while monsters lost their defenses against them.

It's an interesting post and worth a complete read.

What's your opinion on control spells and legendary resistance?

Interesting take.

Of course, there are plenty of control spells (5e sleep, Spike growth, wall of Force etc.) that don't have a save, which is what makes them particularly good - they just work. Those are the ones I see used particularly well.

If I recall correctly, in prior editions (2e and before) magic resistance was much more definitive. If it kicked in, the monster just ignored the spell entirely, such as walking right through a wall of Force. So that part certainly does track.

 

[cbwjm]

MR in 2e should have ran like 1e with higher level spellcasters being better able to bypass it. But the real resistance for high level monsters was their saving throws which increased to the point where using a control spell (even without magic resistance) was a risky proposition which likely wouldn't land.