D&D General Mike Mearls says control spells are ruining 5th Edition

[Zardnaar]

There are principals for how to run high level play. There are a few right ways and a lot of wrong ways. Folks need guidance, not to be shut out.

Whose got that guidance though? Designers cant. Individual DMs can but even then theres conflict.

Most high level adventures limit PC toys in some way. Theres people who want high level adventures opposed to that concept.

Ive looked through a few recently. Super deadly traps and various limitations usually environmental or how spells work.

 

[Maxperson]

Designers cant.

Sure they can. If they couldn't, there would be no DM's Guide.

Most high level adventures limit PC toys in some way. Theres people who want high level adventures opposed to that concept.

The best high level adventures don't limit any toys. They embrace them and/or avoid being destroyed by those toys.

Ive looked through a few recently. Super deadly traps and various limitations usually environmental or how spells work.

Meh. Those aren't good adventures. I've never needed to use those tools to limit things. A few now and then, but not as some way to limit the PCs.

 

[mamba]

It's not this simple. If you don't teach people how to run and play high level, they are not going to do it or probably do it badly and quit.

I am not sure anyone has found a working formula for high level yet that works for a wider audience, and D&D imo makes it near impossible for it to exist

 

[Zardnaar]

Sure they can. If they couldn't, there would be no DM's Guide.

The best high level adventures don't limit any toys. They embrace them and/or avoid being destroyed by those toys.

Meh. Those aren't good adventures. I've never needed to use those tools to limit things. A few now and then, but not as some way to limit the PCs.

Well you cant seem to produce anything.

There's a very good reason a good high level adventure doesn't exist. They've made them.

I'm using the 5.5 DMG guidelines here. If you want to design some encounters perhaps you want to have some of us playtest them for you?

Unless you've metagamed heavily or used the environment very creatively we will steamroll them. With moderate optimization think 1 feat.

ECMO3 is probably the one you want to talk to lol.

 

[Maxperson]

Well you cant seem to produce anything.

There's a very good reason a good high level adventure doesn't exist. They've made them.

I'm using the 5.5 DMG guidelines here. If you want to design some encounters perhaps you want to have some of us playtest them for you?

Unless you've metagamed heavily or used the environment very creatively we will steamroll them. With moderate optimization think 1 feat.

ECMO3 is probably the one you want to talk to lol.

No. Your mistake is in thinking high level play is all about the fight.

 

[Maxperson]

I am not sure anyone has found a working formula for high level yet that works for a wider audience, and D&D imo makes it near impossible for it to exist

That's why you need advice, not a formula. Advice on how to set up and run high level play isn't a formula. It's more like a set of guiding principals that you use to create and run the adventure. I'm bad at articulating what it is that I do, but I do know that I have successfully(as in fun) run high level adventures for decades now.

 

[Zardnaar]

No. Your mistake is in thinking high level play is all about the fight.

That's where youre going to struggle though.

Its the bi reason why DMs dont do high level.

I'm guessing you haven't run or read many high level adventures?

I have. I suspect I'm one of the most experienced here lol.

 

[Maxperson]

That's where youre going to struggle though.

Its the bi reason why DMs dont do high level.

Right. As I said, nobody has taught them how to do it right, so they do it wrong and just try to make it about fights. You're just proving my point here.

I'm guessing you haven't run or read many high level adventures?

I've run dozens. Just not pre-written ones, because they generally aren't very good.

 

[mamba]

I've run dozens. Just not pre-written ones, because they generally aren't very good

and yet you expect WotC to give you a guide on how to create good ones? Sounds more like they do not really know how to do that either (and the Vecna one is a good example of that)

 

[Maxperson]

and yet you expect WotC to give you a guide on how to create good ones? Sounds more like they do not really know how to do that either (and the Vecna one is a good example of that)

Making a high module for general consumption cannot be done well, because it has to appeal broadly to people, and that means monster fights, traps, etc. which don't do high level well. It's a catch 22. They need to not make high level adventures, but teach DMs how to do it themselves. There are a few ways to do it well and the DMs can mix and match the ways they like to play and/or the way the players like to play.