Mind blank vs True seeing and divinations

[FEADIN]

After the intersting Vorpal thread I have another question:
What is your ruling or how do you understand the kind of protection granted by the Mind Blank spell.
Mind Blank
The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects. Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish spells when they are used in such a way as to affect the subject’s mind or to gain information about it. In the case of scrying that scans an area the creature is in, such as arcane eye, the spell works but the creature simply isn’t detected. Scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at the subject do not work at all.
Underlined sentences are about mind reading and influencing so there is no problem but the boldfaced part speaks about divination spells and effects, it is not clear even if we always ruled that tis spell protected from divinations such as see invisibility, true seeing and the like.

 

[Thanee]

Mind Blank doesn't help against True Seeing or other *visual* detection spells (Detect Magic, Arcane Sight, etc), that is, spells that enhance your vision, and only work in line of sight, as opposed to spells, that create a magical sensor or read actual information from the subject, as Detect Thoughts does, for example.

Bye
Thanee

 

[KarinsDad]

Here we go again.

I think this topic might have more posts than just about any other and there are probably entire chapters of disagreement in the archives.

Some people rule this as it basically stops the entire school of divination since the entire intent (and definition) of the divination school is "information gathering".

Others rule that it stops some limited subset of the school of divination, DM dependent. For example, if you do a Commune spell or something that asks the question of a deity, some people rule that Mind Blank does not stop it since you are going to a "third party" instead of divining directly from the protected character.


Personally, I have no problem with it foiling an entire school of magic, just like True Seeing foils an entire school of magic (i.e. Illusion school). But, other people do not see it that way.

 

[Thanee]

As a funny thought... if it works against all divinations, Mind Blank would render you invisible against True Seeing, but not against normal sight, because 'seeing you' is certainly a form of information gathering.

Bye
Thanee

 

[KarinsDad]

As a funny thought... if it works against all divinations, Mind Blank would render you invisible against True Seeing, but not against normal sight, because 'seeing you' is certainly a form of information gathering.

Except normal sight is not "information gathering by divination spells or effects".

 

[Thanee]

But you don't see with normal sight, if you use True Seeing.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Lord Pendragon]

So KD,

Wizard A is under the effects of Mind Blank, as well as Shapechange (taking the form of a dragon).

Wizard B casts True Seeing. What does he see? Does Mind Blank mean he sees a dragon?

I've never gotten a campaign to 9th-level spells yet, so I haven't had to make this call. I've always fallen into the "subset of Divination" category, but recently I've considered ruling that in the above situation, Wizard B wouldn't see anything at all. i.e. the Mind Blank doesn't negate True Seeing, but renders one invisible to divinations. The savvy spellcaster, then, would know something was wrong, though not perhaps what, at first.

 

[FEADIN]

Yes, we always played that Mind Blank get you immune to all divinations, it's a 8th level spell and without this power powerful mages would not be protected enough.
It must be more powerful than Nondetection:
Nondetection
The warded creature or object becomes difficult to detect by divination spells such as clairaudience/clairvoyance, locate object, and detect spells
Note that I include See invisibility in the "detect spells".

 

[Thanee]

It must be more powerful than Nondetection:
Nondetection
The warded creature or object becomes difficult to detect by divination spells such as clairaudience/clairvoyance, locate object, and detect spells
Note that I include See invisibility in the "detect spells".

It is.

Besides, Nondetection also only works on a subset of divinations.

Bye
Thanee

 

[FEADIN]

The point is there, Nondetection protect you from detect spells (if the check is good) and Mind Blank wouldn't do it?