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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JesterOC" data-source="post: 4213060" data-attributes="member: 42841">It seems to me that some people are going to have a very very hard time with some aspects of 4E.  This is a perfect example.To me this is a good example of the differences between 3.x and 4.0.So lets look at it through 3E and 4E mindset.1) Design goal. Design a monster that can swarm the party with numbers, have potential to inflict a decent amount of damage but can be easily taken out.3E. Well define the monster type. Assign level give it low hit dice, and low AC. If you need to increase its to hit and damage increase its level and give it feats if needed.  Result: You have a creature that can be used in any situation that any other monster can.  If can get in a bar fight, you can calculate skills.  It is a well rounded monster.  However you need just as much bookkeeping as any other monster (hit points) and if you wanted it to be skillfull in hitting and do losts of damage, it might have more hitpoints than you want but at least it fits in all of the rules.4e. Grab a beer. Relax and think about what you want to do. Potential for lots of damage, give it the same damage as a standard orc. To hit and AC about the same. If you are going to have lots of them lets get rid of rolling for damage, just have them do average damage.  Oh and we want them to drop when hit so instead of calculating the average hit points a character rolls at this level. Lets just give them 1 hit point. Oh that will make Mages with burning hands be able to kill far too many, so lets just say you need to at least hit it to kill it. Note to self: Don't use minons in bar fights, or skill challenges. But when we do use them feel free to a lots they have been optimized for mass chaos.Result: A specialized monster whose purpose and use are understood.  It does not do everything well, but that just means they should not be used in all aspects of the game.I can see that some people will get stuck in an infinate loop of "what if this, or what if that..."  My suggestion is not to use minons if you don't want to use them for mass attacks.Just trying to articulate my thoughts on this guys, as you can tell I like 4E style better but I am pretty flexible and don't need everything in my game to be a simulation.  Oh and if some way powerful mage shows up and dropped a fireball that is many levels above the minons ability to handle. Of course I will have them drop.  That is all part of the go with the flow DM style you need with 4E.  Funny but I think 4E may be more difficult to make into a computer game than 3E.  So much for it being so much like WOW.JesterOC</blockquote>

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