Minion Fist Fights


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ShinRyuuBR

First Post
Being minion is relative ONLY to the PCs, NOT to each other. A DM designates certain enemies as minions against the PCs so he doesn't have to keep track of their HP. Your point is interesting because a PC could dominate a minion into attack another. I don't know what would happen then, but since the PC's perspective is what matters, I'd assume they would be killed ignoring HP all the same.
 

frankthedm

First Post
Yes, if you were so inclined as a DM to say the minion's punches were breaking the knecks of the other minions, you'd be within your power. Most DMs I know would instead say they knocked themselves out.
 

Cadfan

First Post
Yes. They all just die.

Also, if the PCs meet a level 29 minion and kill it by shooting it with an area of effect attack that does half damage on a miss, they all get a free level. This is why wizards are so much more powerful than everyone else, even in 4e. They kill legion devil minions for sport until they get to level 20 or so. It takes about an hour, or slightly longer if you invite one of your lower level friends to hide behind a pillar nearby and absorb experience points.
 

Cadfan said:
Yes. They all just die.

Also, if the PCs meet a level 29 minion and kill it by shooting it with an area of effect attack that does half damage on a miss, they all get a free level. This is why wizards are so much more powerful than everyone else, even in 4e. They kill legion devil minions for sport until they get to level 20 or so. It takes about an hour, or slightly longer if you invite one of your lower level friends to hide behind a pillar nearby and absorb experience points.
From the Orc preview
"HP 1; a missed attack never damages a minion."
 

LEHaskell

First Post
Brings a whole new meaning to "The Quick and the Dead." You'd think that orcs would have evolved better Init mods under these circumstances.
 

Daniel D. Fox

Explorer
BarkingDeathSquirrel said:
From the Orc preview
"HP 1; a missed attack never damages a minion."

I believe the intention is that Minions ALWAYS die whenever they're damaged. That statement doesn't take into account some missed Daily attacks still render damage, and appears to be an oversight.
 

FunkBGR

First Post
Minion = Mook

I bet common sense still applies though - but yeah, Jackie Chan has "minions" in his movies running into walls, and all kinds of crazy things, and bam, down they go!
 

Maximillian

First Post
Moniker said:
I believe the intention is that Minions ALWAYS die whenever they're damaged. That statement doesn't take into account some missed Daily attacks still render damage, and appears to be an oversight.

I believe that you're incorrect. I'm pretty sure that the intent is that half-damage attacks and residual damage from a missed daily power do not kill minions. The intent seems to be that you should have to be able to hit minions to kill them. In this way, their level actually accounts for something. Level one PCs won't be hitting level 6 minions as easily, and thus won't be killing them.

However, I still wonder about powers that don't require an attack roll, like the Stormwarden ranger paragon path's ability to deal damage to one or more adjacent foes every round.
 

frankthedm

First Post
Moniker said:
I believe the intention is that Minions ALWAYS die whenever they're damaged. That statement doesn't take into account some missed Daily attacks still render damage, and appears to be an oversight.
That is EXACTLY what that statement is taking into account. A missed daily that still deals damage does not kill the minion.

Minions have 1 HP is there to make it easy for the DM, who won't have to track the critter's HP. Not so the minion autodies against attacks that deal damage on a miss.
 

Moniker said:
I believe the intention is that Minions ALWAYS die whenever they're damaged. That statement doesn't take into account some missed Daily attacks still render damage, and appears to be an oversight.
Heck, the pre-gen fighter (I believe) from Keep on the Shadowfell has an at-will power that deals damage on a miss.

I believe that line fully takes into account that those powers exist. Otherwise, you do get the odd (although, corner case and highly DM-dependant) situation that Cadfan described.

Edit: Ninja'd, I guess.
 

Boarstorm

First Post
Moniker said:
I believe the intention is that Minions ALWAYS die whenever they're damaged. That statement doesn't take into account some missed Daily attacks still render damage, and appears to be an oversight.

Err... it seems to me to be the opposite case. They know that some missed attacks still render damage, so they decided to make minions hit-only to PREVENT that kind of cheese.

Edit: Hardcore ninja'd.
 


Kaffis

First Post
Moniker said:
I believe the intention is that Minions ALWAYS die whenever they're damaged. That statement doesn't take into account some missed Daily attacks still render damage, and appears to be an oversight.

Actually, I think it does take that into account. In fact, the minion appears to be the exception to said powers that do partial damage on misses.
 

Sojorn

First Post
Boarstorm said:
Err... it seems to me to be the opposite case. They know that some missed attacks still render damage, so they decided to make minions hit-only to PREVENT that kind of cheese.
The old wording confused the issue of auto-hits though, this new wording seems to indicate that damage auras do instantly kill minions.

I'm sure there'll be a section in the DMG or MM that explains EXACTLY what they mean though.
 

Korgoth

First Post
Wormwood said:
Your first mistake. ;)

Maybe so. :) But when I get interested in a fantasy game, part of it is imagining the world. I have to be able to do that somewhat consistently.

Imagine a bar full of minions. They get into a fight with each other. When some guy hits another guy with a chair or beer mug, does that guy automatically die?

It just seems strange. Like some people are way too tough and others are way too fragile.
 



Kaffis

First Post
Korgoth said:
Maybe so. :) But when I get interested in a fantasy game, part of it is imagining the world. I have to be able to do that somewhat consistently.

Imagine a bar full of minions. They get into a fight with each other. When some guy hits another guy with a chair or beer mug, does that guy automatically die?

It just seems strange. Like some people are way too tough and others are way too fragile.

See, the problem here is, you're assuming minions *can* get in a bar fight. Everybody knows that tavern brawls are PC activities. Thus, once said fight breaks out, the minions become PCs.
 

Cadfan

First Post
No, the problem is that you're assuming that "minion" is a characteristic of the identified NPC, rather than a characteristic of the relationship between the identified NPC and the PCs.
 

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