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Minion Fist Fights
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<blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 4221239" data-attributes="member: 53980"><p>Fair enough.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Most living beings are fairly fragile. Put a knife through someone's lung and, while they won't die instantly, they certainly won't be in any shape to continue fighting. Just like a hit can be interpreted in game as a miss (the creature was lucky enough to duck at the last second and loses hp to represent that it's used up some of it's good karma), a miss in terms of an attack roll doesn't have to mean that the attack was a complete whiff; it just means that the attack did no appreciable harm (kind of like a papercut; while unpleasant, it's in no way life threatening). For the orc who is designated as a minion when he comes across the PCs, it just happens to be the unluckiest day of his life (as well as the last day).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, many of us are fairly certain that ALL minions don't take damage from missed attacks (that deal half damage). It means that minions have a chance of surviving a half-damage attack (partly because having half damage attacks automatically kill minions would not be balanced). You can still consider the orc who survived the fireball to be mildly burned, he just wasn't life threateningly burned. Since AoEs require a seperate attack roll against each target, the odds are that some of the minions will live and some will die. Minions ARE capable of avoiding damage, just not to the extent that normal monsters and PCs can. Just like elite and solo creatures can avoid significantly more damage than normal monsters and PCs.</p><p></p><p>We actually don't know how an attack that does not produce an attack roll would effect a minion. My guess is that it would be an auto-kill, as the only power of this type that we've seen so far (from the Storm Warden in the Paragon Path's preview) is limited in nature and fairly high in level(the power deals automatic damage to two adjacent creatures at the end of the Warden's turn provided he's capable of making AoOs). But that's only a guess and we really don't know.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>All creatures in D&D (aside from the PCs) are dramatic set pieces. Some die easier than others, that's all. Are you still excited about protecting the castle from level 1 orcs when the PCs are level 9? Level 1 orcs pose absolutely no challenge to level 9 PCs regardless of what feats you give them. The beauty of the minion rule is that a level 9 minion poses a significant threat to the PCs and you can still use a horde of them. In 3.x you either had a horde of creatures OR creatures that posed a significant threat to the PCs (there was some amount of overlap, but it wasn't easy to find). In 4e you can have a horde of minions AND have them pose a significant threat to the PCs. IMO, a significant threat is more exciting than an insignificant one.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you feel that the Average Westerner minion should drop instantly from 2 out of 3 sword swings give them a 15 AC. If you want an explanation as to where the exta AC came from, let's call it a luck bonus.</p><p></p><p>What many of us who like the minion rules enjoy about them is the minimum of bookkeeping required. A minion is either dead or alive. You don't need to record which minion has 1 hp remaining after an attack. Just how many are still alive. This is very convenient if you're running a large horde of creatures and aren't blessed with good multitasking skills (which, sadly, I am largely bereft of). It's great if you can track the hp and position of 20 different creatures while keeping track of everything else in combat, but for those of us who can't, I hope you'll understand the advantage therein.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fanaelialae, post: 4221239, member: 53980"] Fair enough. Most living beings are fairly fragile. Put a knife through someone's lung and, while they won't die instantly, they certainly won't be in any shape to continue fighting. Just like a hit can be interpreted in game as a miss (the creature was lucky enough to duck at the last second and loses hp to represent that it's used up some of it's good karma), a miss in terms of an attack roll doesn't have to mean that the attack was a complete whiff; it just means that the attack did no appreciable harm (kind of like a papercut; while unpleasant, it's in no way life threatening). For the orc who is designated as a minion when he comes across the PCs, it just happens to be the unluckiest day of his life (as well as the last day). Actually, many of us are fairly certain that ALL minions don't take damage from missed attacks (that deal half damage). It means that minions have a chance of surviving a half-damage attack (partly because having half damage attacks automatically kill minions would not be balanced). You can still consider the orc who survived the fireball to be mildly burned, he just wasn't life threateningly burned. Since AoEs require a seperate attack roll against each target, the odds are that some of the minions will live and some will die. Minions ARE capable of avoiding damage, just not to the extent that normal monsters and PCs can. Just like elite and solo creatures can avoid significantly more damage than normal monsters and PCs. We actually don't know how an attack that does not produce an attack roll would effect a minion. My guess is that it would be an auto-kill, as the only power of this type that we've seen so far (from the Storm Warden in the Paragon Path's preview) is limited in nature and fairly high in level(the power deals automatic damage to two adjacent creatures at the end of the Warden's turn provided he's capable of making AoOs). But that's only a guess and we really don't know. All creatures in D&D (aside from the PCs) are dramatic set pieces. Some die easier than others, that's all. Are you still excited about protecting the castle from level 1 orcs when the PCs are level 9? Level 1 orcs pose absolutely no challenge to level 9 PCs regardless of what feats you give them. The beauty of the minion rule is that a level 9 minion poses a significant threat to the PCs and you can still use a horde of them. In 3.x you either had a horde of creatures OR creatures that posed a significant threat to the PCs (there was some amount of overlap, but it wasn't easy to find). In 4e you can have a horde of minions AND have them pose a significant threat to the PCs. IMO, a significant threat is more exciting than an insignificant one. If you feel that the Average Westerner minion should drop instantly from 2 out of 3 sword swings give them a 15 AC. If you want an explanation as to where the exta AC came from, let's call it a luck bonus. What many of us who like the minion rules enjoy about them is the minimum of bookkeeping required. A minion is either dead or alive. You don't need to record which minion has 1 hp remaining after an attack. Just how many are still alive. This is very convenient if you're running a large horde of creatures and aren't blessed with good multitasking skills (which, sadly, I am largely bereft of). It's great if you can track the hp and position of 20 different creatures while keeping track of everything else in combat, but for those of us who can't, I hope you'll understand the advantage therein. [/QUOTE]
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