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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ryryguy" data-source="post: 4224237" data-attributes="member: 64945">(Reaching back a few days in the thread, sorry...)I personally have no problem with minions only being minions when they fight the PC's... with the combat engine being largely decoupled from the larger gameworld and narrative.  I have certainly experienced some struggles and rough points with the old style, and I'm excited to try out the new.Even given that point of view, I just wanted to say that I do appreciate Lizard's comment here.  It is cool that in 3e, you could maybe get a plot point out of a mechanic... something like: because a guy gets a saving throw against charm once a day, the succubus behind the throne has to arrange to be alone with the king at that time to re-charm if necessary.  This is cool not from the inspiration, but because when this detail is revealed in the course of the adventure, the players' "a-ha!" is amplified by their shared a priori understanding of how the game world works.  That may end up occasionally being missed in 4e.  At least, it will be somewhat more challenging to set up.  The DM may educate the players about his custom, story "out-of-combat charm mechanics" during the course of the adventure, but it would be harder to do so without being heavy-handed and giving the game away prematurely.  (At least in this example.)But still, there's lots of 4e stuff we haven't seen yet, obviously.  It may be that there are some suggested gameworld "laws" (outside of the combat engine) you can play off of in similar ways.  And if not, then if that high degree of world consistency and logic is important to you and your game, then maybe you can have fun creating it!  I really don't think things like weirdness of minion hp in combat will really interfere with that effort unless you are looking for problems... there should still be many points from the rules you can play off of, and just downplay or handwave the odd bits that don't work out.</blockquote>

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