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<blockquote data-quote="Parlan" data-source="post: 4232167" data-attributes="member: 16808">The point is, there no way to do it within the 3.x RAW, without relying on Rule 0.By your logic, Minions can also be included in Texas Hold 'Em, Basketball and Hot dog Eating Contests with a liberal enough application of Rule 0 (or its respective equivalents).&nbsp; Technically true, but not exactly helpful to the discussion. That's the whole point: they are a threat *and* they aren't a threat.They are enough of a threat that PCs can't ignore them (relatively high to hit bonuses)They are not so much of a threat that a mass of them will likely overwhelm the PCsWhy the dichotomy? So combats with large numbers of opponents are fun:When the BBEG sics his Horde o' Minions on the party they have a choice of strategies:1. focus on the BBEG and ignore the Minions2. focus on the Minions and ignore the BBEG3. focus on bothEach strategy has pluses and minuses.&nbsp; Analyzing these is part of the fun of combat.Without Minion rules, either the party just focuses on the BBEG because no other strategy is viable (the non-BBEG's aren't likely to do hit often or hard enough to warrant the PCs' attention).One obvious strategy = boring.Or the party gets wiped out by shear numbers.TPK = suckyMinion rules seem to allow these types of encounters by elegantly balancing the threat dichotomy and DM book-keeping.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Parlan, post: 4232167, member: 16808"] The point is, there no way to do it within the 3.x RAW, without relying on Rule 0. By your logic, Minions can also be included in Texas Hold 'Em, Basketball and Hot dog Eating Contests with a liberal enough application of Rule 0 (or its respective equivalents). Technically true, but not exactly helpful to the discussion. That's the whole point: they are a threat *and* they aren't a threat. They are enough of a threat that PCs can't ignore them (relatively high to hit bonuses) They are not so much of a threat that a mass of them will likely overwhelm the PCs Why the dichotomy? So combats with large numbers of opponents are fun: When the BBEG sics his Horde o' Minions on the party they have a choice of strategies: 1. focus on the BBEG and ignore the Minions 2. focus on the Minions and ignore the BBEG 3. focus on both Each strategy has pluses and minuses. Analyzing these is part of the fun of combat. Without Minion rules, either the party just focuses on the BBEG because no other strategy is viable (the non-BBEG's aren't likely to do hit often or hard enough to warrant the PCs' attention). One obvious strategy = boring. Or the party gets wiped out by shear numbers. TPK = sucky Minion rules seem to allow these types of encounters by elegantly balancing the threat dichotomy and DM book-keeping. [/QUOTE]

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