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<blockquote data-quote="Storm-Bringer" data-source="post: 4233234" data-attributes="member: 57832">Then use everything else in the statblock except the hit points.&nbsp; For that, just note a '1' and move on.Secondly, there are no bandaids, because it isn't an issue in previous editions.&nbsp; There were no minions.&nbsp; What is being described is how it could have easily been done before.&nbsp; Further, its and argument supporting the overarching idea that you don't have to slavishly wait for the rules to hold you by the hand and provide you with an enjoyable gaming experience.&nbsp; Since Mr Gygax put pen to paper, it was always in your hands.&nbsp; That's right!&nbsp; You have always been 'allowed' to change whatever you wanted!&nbsp; That isn't Rule 0.&nbsp; That is how roleplaying games work.But, from what I have gathered, most of the 4e support I have heard lately doesn't seem to want to go far afield from the letter of the rules.&nbsp; In the last few weeks, the chorus appears to applaud every new rule almost unanimously.&nbsp; Simply taking a monster statblock as written, and changing the hit points to 1 in order to get the 'cinematic feel' people seem to be looking for is anathema.So?&nbsp; It's not there to interact with the players.&nbsp; It's there to provide a cinematic horde to make the players feel badass.I don't understand the first sentence.&nbsp; Why can't I decide that in 3.x?&nbsp; Or, for that matter, in 2nd edition, 1st edition, BECMI, Traveller, Tunnels and Trolls, Star Frontiers or Deadlands?&nbsp; What, precisely, is physically preventing me from doing exactly what I want?&nbsp; I can give a kobold 6 mega-hit points per die, or I can give a dragon one-tenth of a hit point per die, if I so choose.&nbsp; Here, check this out:[code]Ogre MageType:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; MinionHit Dice:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [b]1 hit point[/b] (5d8+15 (37 hp))Initiative:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +4Speed:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 40 ft. (8 squares), fly 40 ft. (good)Armor Class:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 18 (-1 size, +5 natural, +4 chain shirt), touch 9, flat-footed 18Base/Grapple:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3/+12Attack:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Greatsword +7 melee (3d6+7/19-20) or longbow +2 ranged (2d6/×3)Full Attack:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Greatsword +7 melee (3d6+7/19-20) or longbow +2 ranged (2d6/×3)Space/Reach:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 10 ft./10 ft.Spc Attacks:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Spell-like abilitiesSpc Qualities:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Change shape, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, regeneration 5, spell resistance 19Saves:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Fort +7, Ref +1, Will +3Abilities:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Str 21, Dex 10, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 17Skills:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Concentration +11, Listen +10, Spellcraft +10, Spot +10Feats:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Combat Expertise, Improved InitiativeEnvironment:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Cold hillsOrganization:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Solitary, pair, or troupe (1-2 plus 2-4 ogres)CR:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [b]2 (8)[/b]Treasure:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Double standardAlignment:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Usually lawful evilAdvance:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; By character classLA:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +7[/code]I bolded everything I changed to turn this into an Ogre Mage minion.&nbsp; Now, you can cut them down by the score, and they will be a 'credible threat' to the PCs.&nbsp; &nbsp; Only if you expect the system to cover every possible circumstance that could ever come up.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Storm-Bringer, post: 4233234, member: 57832"] Then use everything else in the statblock except the hit points. For that, just note a '1' and move on. Secondly, there are no bandaids, because it isn't an issue in previous editions. There were no minions. What is being described is how it could have easily been done before. Further, its and argument supporting the overarching idea that you don't have to slavishly wait for the rules to hold you by the hand and provide you with an enjoyable gaming experience. Since Mr Gygax put pen to paper, [i]it was always in your hands[/i]. That's right! You have always been 'allowed' to change whatever you wanted! That isn't Rule 0. That is how roleplaying games work. But, from what I have gathered, most of the 4e support I have heard lately doesn't seem to want to go far afield from the letter of the rules. In the last few weeks, the chorus appears to applaud every new rule almost unanimously. Simply taking a monster statblock as written, and changing the hit points to 1 in order to get the 'cinematic feel' people seem to be looking for is anathema. So? It's not there to interact with the players. It's there to provide a cinematic horde to make the players feel badass. I don't understand the first sentence. Why can't I decide that in 3.x? Or, for that matter, in 2nd edition, 1st edition, BECMI, Traveller, Tunnels and Trolls, Star Frontiers or Deadlands? What, precisely, is physically preventing me from doing exactly what I want? I can give a kobold 6 mega-hit points per die, or I can give a dragon one-tenth of a hit point per die, if I so choose. Here, check this out: [code]Ogre Mage Type: Minion Hit Dice: [b]1 hit point[/b] (5d8+15 (37 hp)) Initiative: +4 Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), fly 40 ft. (good) Armor Class: 18 (-1 size, +5 natural, +4 chain shirt), touch 9, flat-footed 18 Base/Grapple: +3/+12 Attack: Greatsword +7 melee (3d6+7/19-20) or longbow +2 ranged (2d6/×3) Full Attack: Greatsword +7 melee (3d6+7/19-20) or longbow +2 ranged (2d6/×3) Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft. Spc Attacks: Spell-like abilities Spc Qualities: Change shape, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, regeneration 5, spell resistance 19 Saves: Fort +7, Ref +1, Will +3 Abilities: Str 21, Dex 10, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 17 Skills: Concentration +11, Listen +10, Spellcraft +10, Spot +10 Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative Environment: Cold hills Organization: Solitary, pair, or troupe (1-2 plus 2-4 ogres) CR: [b]2 (8)[/b] Treasure: Double standard Alignment: Usually lawful evil Advance: By character class LA: +7[/code] I bolded everything I changed to turn this into an Ogre Mage minion. Now, you can cut them down by the score, and they will be a 'credible threat' to the PCs. Only if you expect the system to cover every possible circumstance that could ever come up. [/QUOTE]

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