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<blockquote data-quote="Andor" data-source="post: 4237424" data-attributes="member: 1879">This is flat wrong. As I pointed out before, it's perfectly possible to make an orc horde where the swarm of 1st level Orc Warriors are still capable of hitting higher level PCs due to a series of buffs from some mid level Orc with levels in classes that buff like clerics, marshals, bards, and dragon shamans. Is that more work than using the minion rules in 4e? Yep.Does it work for all monster types and woolly mammoths? Nope.Is it something you want to use every session? Nope.Are minions therefore easier to do in 4e? Yep.So minions can only be used in 4e? Nope. See above.If you want the PCs to carve their way through a horde of weaker, but still dangerous mooks in 3e on their way to the climactic boss fight it can be done. With Orcs or any humanoid as I suggest above. Or with undead using some of the stuff from liber mortis. Or with any weak creature by assigning an arbitrary morale bonus to hit as a blessing from their Dark God. And it will be a big climactic battle that the pcs will remember and will violate not one damm RAW.If you want to throw a horde of soap bubbles shaped like orcs/angels/demons/mammoths/dragons/random-prostitutes at the party every week? You need 4e. But I'm willing to bet the PCs won't remember any one mook horde as standing out from all the other mobs of the week.Does that make 3e better than 4e? Nope. Does it make 4e better than 3e? Who knows? I remain to be convinced.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Andor, post: 4237424, member: 1879"] This is flat wrong. As I pointed out before, it's perfectly possible to make an orc horde where the swarm of 1st level Orc Warriors are still capable of hitting higher level PCs due to a series of buffs from some mid level Orc with levels in classes that buff like clerics, marshals, bards, and dragon shamans. Is that more work than using the minion rules in 4e? Yep. Does it work for all monster types and woolly mammoths? Nope. Is it something you want to use every session? Nope. Are minions therefore easier to do in 4e? Yep. So minions can only be used in 4e? Nope. See above. If you want the PCs to carve their way through a horde of weaker, but still dangerous mooks in 3e on their way to the climactic boss fight it can be done. With Orcs or any humanoid as I suggest above. Or with undead using some of the stuff from liber mortis. Or with any weak creature by assigning an arbitrary morale bonus to hit as a blessing from their Dark God. And it will be a big climactic battle that the pcs will remember and will violate not one damm RAW. If you want to throw a horde of soap bubbles shaped like orcs/angels/demons/mammoths/dragons/random-prostitutes at the party every week? You need 4e. But I'm willing to bet the PCs won't remember any one mook horde as standing out from all the other mobs of the week. Does that make 3e better than 4e? Nope. Does it make 4e better than 3e? Who knows? I remain to be convinced. [/QUOTE]

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